Is Bruce Jenner really having a sex change?

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Someone off of the topic, An interesting comment someone made on Facebook the other day in relation to an article saying a particular person was openly gay. The comment said "Funny how I've never heard of someone referred to as openly straight".

I don't get it.
People don't need to out themselves as openly straight. Straight people do not face discrimination and prejudice for their sexuality.
In contrast it is often a brave choice for a gay person to come out due religious and cultural reasons.

a silly comment really- was it meant to be deliberately ironic?

[becca]

It's true, straight people have never had to hide who they are. Or at least I've never heard of anyone straight having to, nor being attacked for being too straight looking or acting for that matter. I would like a world where people can be themselves and not be repressed or made to feel their truth is wrong because it's not true for somebody else.

A lot of the variety of trans is pretty confusing I think, it is to me; people have to work at understanding and the questions might seem really ignorant. It's generally a good idea to take people at their word about knowing their own mind however and respecting that. It's great that people can do something about it earlier and easier these days... Jenner is more old school in contrast? There are also people who feel mostly genderless too, kind of alienated or not really 'getting' it and I have known a few people like that. Maybe as I get older I'll prefer 'none of the above'?

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

Why?

1. Transgenders should be addressed with the pronoun belonging to the gender achieved after their partial or total "transformation".

2. So if Caitlyn likes women she is in fact a lesbian.


3. As for the Wheaties cover (which I had to Google-search), probably she's still a very athletic person so she could be on it again. .

1. No. He's still a he.

If we take it to an even further extreme. What do we say if a
persons "transformation" is to a goat? Would some call this
trans-species a Stevie Nicks?

2. That's a mind bender.

3. The Wheaties cover is probably not going to happen again.
Lucky Charms maybe, but not Wheaties.

[SisterNightroad]

Was that supposed to be funny?

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I don't get it.
People don't need to out themselves as openly straight. Straight people do not face discrimination and prejudice for their sexuality.
In contrast it is often a brave choice for a gay person to come out due religious and cultural reasons.

a silly comment really- was it meant to be deliberately ironic?

It was a gay person who made the comment that I am quoting, I guess he was pointing out that a the particular article about a particular person instantly had to reference his sexuality, which in no way had anything to do with his ability to do the job (think the guy was a councillor or state politician or something).

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

1. No. He's still a he.

If we take it to an even further extreme. What do we say if a
persons "transformation" is to a goat? Would some call this
trans-species a Stevie Nicks?

2. That's a mind bender.

3. The Wheaties cover is probably not going to happen again.
Lucky Charms maybe, but not Wheaties.

Gender identity is way different to what is written on the birth certificate.

I know of a person who was born intersex and it was basically chosen by the parents and doctors as to what gender they would be assigned. They then grew up and found that they didn't identify with either gender, or rather identified with some parts of both genders. They are now happy to identify as both male and female.

You'd be surprised just how many people are born intersex or who don't identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth.

Physical characteristics don't necessarily define gender, we as a society like to put labels on people for the purposes of classification. Biological sex does not define gender identity, nor does it define sexual orientation.

Not sure if you are just trolling though

[becca]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I know of a person who was born intersex and it was basically chosen by the parents and doctors as to what gender they would be assigned.

The angriest person (and rightfully) I ever met was in that situation plus there had been surgery performed on them at an extremely young age. Their story just blew my mind, to imagine having actual people responsible for such anguish and pain... my admiration for him remains unsurpassed that he dealt with it as well as he did.

---

Um...

Goats? Seriously? There is a strange minority of people who seem to think up that animals and children are 'what's next'... and I really don't have a clue why.

[FuzzyPlum]

[QUOTE=becca;1169138]The angriest person (and rightfully) I ever met was in that situation plus there had been surgery performed on them at an extremely young age. Their story just blew my mind, to imagine having actual people responsible for such anguish and pain... my admiration for him remains unsurpassed that he dealt with it as well as he did.

QUOTE]

Regarding anger- the book 'The Wasp Factory' springs to mind.
Albeit that's a bit of a twisted story (but my memory is a bit cloudy as I read it nearly 20 years ago).

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I know of a person who was born intersex and it was basically chosen by the parents and doctors as to what gender they would be assigned.

You'd be surprised just how many people are born intersex or who don't identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth.

Physical characteristics don't necessarily define gender...

(My first serious post in this thread)

I'm a Christian and as I've stated before I believe homosexuality is a sin.
I didn't state that to argue about it and wasn't going to mention it in this
thread. But what you mentioned above "a person born intersex" which
I guess would be a hermaphrodite, is perplexing to me.

I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be a parent and have to choose
in that type situation. One of my mom's friends had a child born like that.
As I don't know any personal details (nor would I post them if I did), they
chose (if they had a choice) to raise him as a male. On a sad note, he was
killed by a car accident.

Some things are black or white. On this type situation for the parents and
the children I really have no clue. Only God knows.

[SisterNightroad]

You know, the concepts of the sex genders don't exist in nature, they're human mind products.
Nature includes homosexuality and a lot of intermediate variations between the two extremes that we have addressed as "male" and "female" for all of the animal species.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

You know, the concepts of the sex genders don't exist in nature, they're human mind products.
Nature includes homosexuality and a lot of intermediate variations between the two extremes that we have addressed as "male" and "female" for all of the animal species.

Yep and the problem is that if someone doesn't fit (especially intersex) then we have to try to make them fit into one of our classifications.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by becca

The angriest person (and rightfully) I ever met was in that situation plus there had been surgery performed on them at an extremely young age. Their story just blew my mind, to imagine having actual people responsible for such anguish and pain... my admiration for him remains unsurpassed that he dealt with it as well as he did.

This is a bit of information about the person I was talking about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Briffa

[SisterNightroad]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Yep and the problem is that if someone doesn't fit (especially intersex) then we have to try to make them fit into one of our classifications.

Yes, but that's understandable by a strictly evolutionist point of view because some of the most central intermediate positions between the sexes might be sterile and nature made us so that we don't find them attractive.
By the cultural side though, we should understand that since these are natural genetic variations then they aren't detrimental; in fact homosexuality might be positive for the evolution of the human species.
I think a lot of damage on this point of view has been done by the refusal to teach the theory of evolution. Gods, I live where the Pope lives and even here it hasn't been forbidden.