Was Nights in Estoril an outtake from the 80s?

[Villavic]

I usually listen just Christine´s songs from the Time album. So it would be unfair if I give a low rating to the other songs that I don't really remember. I’m not sure why I skip them. It must be my loyalty and fandom to the legendary and favorite lineup of mine. However I don’t skip Billy & Rick songs from BTM.

So it’s no surprise that caught my attention in this article was the NIE review. Was it written in the 80s? Was it an outtake from Tango or BTM? I don’t remember reading about it.

https://splendidfredmagazine.com/202...wood-mac-time/

‘Nights in Estoril’, however, is the real highlight of the album. With its sweeping drumbeat, ‘Everywhere’ synth shimmer and McVie’s verses of the far and fantastical, it’s Christine desperate to recapture Tango in the Night. And she does a stellar job. It’s no ‘Little Lies’, but it could be an outtake from the band’s 80s years, undoubtedly. McVie initially didn’t want to appear on another Fleetwood Mac album by 1995, but was pressured by Warner Bros. to pen five tracks. Thank God. Without them, Time would be an irredeemable affair. Mason and Burnette even get to show off their six-string physique plenty on ‘Estoril’.

[Macfan4life]

Whoever wrote that must be my secret twin. I am not a fan of Time but Nights is one of my favorite Mac songs. It in my top 10 Chris songs. Without this song the album would suffer.
There is sort of a timestamp on the song with her mad love affair with Eddy. So it probably was written in the 80s. But the music was recorded by different musicians and sent to the Mac. Chris did not want to travel to the states and record with the band. This is another reason the song stands out like a sore thumb on the album. Chris submitted a polished gem. She took the bull by the horns.
I was not aware Burnette played on it because did she not use different guitarists?
Chris produced the song too which was rare for her and she did an amazing job.

[aleuzzi]

I’ve said to before and I’ll say it forever: I think TIME is a far better album than BTM, which is their worst. The arrangements on TIME are stripped back, not as much gloss. About half the album works really well. Talking to My Heart, Nothing Without You, Got It in for You, and all of Christine’s songs are pretty strong, I think.

I hate Mason’s tunes, and Mick’s final “opus.”

[Macfan4life]

There is something about this melody that haunts me. It always has. Its very Chris and even though she was mostly responsible for the song really reveals she WAS Fleetwood Mac. Its the most Fleetwood Mac sounding song on Time IMHO.

Piano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l36YoyV3MDo

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I’ve said to before and I’ll say it forever: I think TIME is a far better album than BTM, which is their worst. The arrangements on TIME are stripped back, not as much gloss. About half the album works really well. Talking to My Heart, Nothing Without You, Got It in for You, and all of Christine’s songs are pretty strong, I think.

I hate Mason’s tunes, and Mick’s final “opus.”

Not that I dislike Time, but it doesn't move me at all, except for Christine songs. If I skip her songs, I'm feeling I'm listening any new band.

I liked BTM, not much but I enjoyed some songs. I think I liked it because it hadn't been that long since the Tango Tour and I liked the lineup, despite Stevie's performance and missing Lindsey. But I admit that the arrangements were disappointing. That album could have sounded better.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm with Tony, I like Time better than BTM. BTM is too long, with too much filler (SYW, anyone?). Brevity isn't a gift FM possesses. Just because a cd can be 80 minutes, doesn't mean it SHOULD be 80 minutes.

[blinker12]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

But the music was recorded by different musicians and sent to the Mac. Chris did not want to travel to the states and record with the band. This is another reason the song stands out like a sore thumb on the album. Chris submitted a polished gem. She took the bull by the horns.

She used different musicians for her tracks?? I’d never heard this before! Were the musicians uncredited? (I’ve never owned a physical copy of Time, I’m afraid…)

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by blinker12

She used different musicians for her tracks?? I’d never heard this before! Were the musicians uncredited? (I’ve never owned a physical copy of Time, I’m afraid…)

Wow. WHY NOT?

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by blinker12

She used different musicians for her tracks?? I’d never heard this before! Were the musicians uncredited? (I’ve never owned a physical copy of Time, I’m afraid…)

Michael Thompson is credited for guitar on all of her songs on Time. If I remember correctly she did not want to record with the band in CA and recorded many of her songs in England and sent them over. I should not have said "musicians" but musician since she did not want to travel and did not get along with another guitarist. She also produced the song. I never knew any of this either until about 10 years ago on this board.

Although when you think about it, she had to have had other "musicians" to record in England besides a guitar player. However no one else is credited except the guitarist who played on all her songs. The guitar playing is excellent on that song. I researched him and he has played with endless major recording artists. I suppose that is what you call a "studio musician." Maybe he was hired out of desperation in crafting some sort of song or demo to send to the Mac.
Time information is so sketchy and I wish we knew more.

[SteveMacD]

I still think Christine’s songs were from the Spring, 1993 demo sessions, before Bekka and Dave were in the band.

Bands on big labels basically record an album twice. They’ll record demos in a smaller (but totally professional) studio to work out arrangements, harmonies, etc. Then, they’ll redo everything in a bigger studio.

That’s why Billy’s on “I Do.” He was still in the band for the early demo sessions. Michael Thompson was hired for the sessions because Fleetwood Mac didn’t have a lead guitarist at that time.

Christine pulled out at some point, but she’s on Billy’s songs and one or two of Bekka’s. So, maybe she showed up on the days they weren’t working on Dave’s stuff and procrastinated letting them work on her songs, before pulling out of the sessions altogether.

The band submitted a version of the album without her, but the label rejected it. However, since she was basically done, they just used the demos. She may have come back to layer on some harmonies and keyboards to the other songs, but I doubt she spent weeks with them.

However, throughout that era, Christine was always mentioned as being a member of the band in interviews and Bekka’s Rolling Stone interview makes it clear that Christine was in communication with the band on some level throughout. And, IIRC, Christine expressed annoyance with how long it took to make the album because of all the touring the others had been doing in that AOL session. Finally, John Courage was the one organizing the recording sessions, and I doubt he would continue to be involved if his client wasn’t part of the sessions, but who knows?

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I still think Christine’s songs were from the Spring, 1993 demo sessions, before Bekka and Dave were in the band.

Bands on big labels basically record an album twice. They’ll record demos in a smaller (but totally professional) studio to work out arrangements, harmonies, etc. Then, they’ll redo everything in a bigger studio.

That’s why Billy’s on “I Do.” He was still in the band for the early demo sessions. Michael Thompson was hired for the sessions because Fleetwood Mac didn’t have a lead guitarist at that time.

Christine pulled out at some point, but she’s on Billy’s songs and one or two of Bekka’s. So, maybe she showed up on the days they weren’t working on Dave’s stuff and procrastinated letting them work on her songs, before pulling out of the sessions altogether.

The band submitted a version of the album without her, but the label rejected it. However, since she was basically done, they just used the demos. She may have come back to layer on some harmonies and keyboards to the other songs, but I doubt she spent weeks with them.

However, throughout that era, Christine was always mentioned as being a member of the band in interviews and Bekka’s Rolling Stone interview makes it clear that Christine was in communication with the band on some level throughout. And, IIRC, Christine expressed annoyance with how long it took to make the album because of all the touring the others had been doing in that AOL session. Finally, John Courage was the one organizing the recording sessions, and I doubt he would continue to be involved if his client wasn’t part of the sessions, but who knows?

I was hoping you would show up
A thread like this needs you

I think you may be correct and this explains why Nights is so polished with another guitar player. It could have been recorded prior to hiring the other guitarist.
What would we do without you?

[Villavic]

With all the information I'm discovering in this thread, it's harder for me to call TIME a Fleetwood Mac album.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Villavic

With all the information I'm discovering in this thread, it's harder for me to call TIME a Fleetwood Mac album.

I dunno. I don’t really see how it’s all that different from Jeremy not playing on Peter’s songs and not playing at all on Then Play on or how Lindsey didn’t have the others on his songs all that much after Rumours.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

With all the information I'm discovering in this thread, it's harder for me to call TIME a Fleetwood Mac album.

To be fair it really was a hodge podge to keep the band going. Chris was half in, Billy came back but not Rick. Another guitarist was used before hiring Dave Mason. Bekka at least worked with the Zoo so it felt like The Zoo featuring Fleetwood Mac.
Even the record label was all messed up. They never promoted the album after promising to do so with Chris's involvement.
The album sold 36,000 copies by 1996 and this is when albums were still selling.

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I still think ChristineÂ’s songs were from the Spring, 1993 demo sessions, before Bekka and Dave were in the band.

Bands on big labels basically record an album twice. TheyÂ’ll record demos in a smaller (but totally professional) studio to work out arrangements, harmonies, etc. Then, theyÂ’ll redo everything in a bigger studio.

That’s why Billy’s on “I Do.” He was still in the band for the early demo sessions. Michael Thompson was hired for the sessions because Fleetwood Mac didn’t have a lead guitarist at that time.

Christine pulled out at some point, but sheÂ’s on BillyÂ’s songs and one or two of BekkaÂ’s. So, maybe she showed up on the days they werenÂ’t working on DaveÂ’s stuff and procrastinated letting them work on her songs, before pulling out of the sessions altogether.

The band submitted a version of the album without her, but the label rejected it. However, since she was basically done, they just used the demos. She may have come back to layer on some harmonies and keyboards to the other songs, but I doubt she spent weeks with them.

However, throughout that era, Christine was always mentioned as being a member of the band in interviews and BekkaÂ’s Rolling Stone interview makes it clear that Christine was in communication with the band on some level throughout. And, IIRC, Christine expressed annoyance with how long it took to make the album because of all the touring the others had been doing in that AOL session. Finally, John Courage was the one organizing the recording sessions, and I doubt he would continue to be involved if his client wasnÂ’t part of the sessions, but who knows?

I think Steve is correct re 1993. There were certainly plans for Fleetwood Mac to record in April 1993 based on this pre-Clinton inauguration interview in January. Who exactly was there though is a bit open to question- Chris, Mick and John, obviously. At some point Billy left- he wasn't really a lead guitarist so this would also explain why the sessionman Michael Thompson was largely credited for guitars on Christine's songs- he's credited for "additional guitars" on I do so maybe Billy contributed some guitar work later on as well -although Dave Mason could have done this, despite Christine's animus to him. I reckon Billy and Bekka overdubbed some backing vocals on some of Christine's songs in 1994/5 on, although they're not really terribly prominent on them. I could be wrong, though. Worrying about how Time was put together is a bit esoteric...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lc7hE9TIr0&t=493s