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  #46  
Old 05-04-2004, 06:55 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I am glad you said this instead of me Although - clearly LB, SN, and CM all gain in sales and marketability from FM
Clearly!! It wasn't a knock on LB. I would have preferred Gift of Screws. Seems like I made the sacrifice having to forgo his solo album which i was dying to come out after the dance tour!

So in closing it was me who made the sacrifice, you all agree with that?
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  #47  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:14 PM
CarneVaca CarneVaca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les
I I can't really imagine looking at Christine's departure harshly either.
And I certainly don't. I'm just wondering why there is a double standard.
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  #48  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sodascouts
Up on of those rivers Carne talked about in the Rumours forum without any toilet paper.
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  #49  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:17 PM
CarneVaca CarneVaca is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr
Is it really a sacrifice for LB to give up his solo work to fold into a FM album?
If all you care about is money and sales figures, the answer would be no. But in 1987 I seriously doubt that was foremost in Lindsey's mind. He had made his money and he could have retired to Cabo to live out the rest of his life like a king.
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  #50  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dissention
Were any contracts signed? I don't remember reading anything about anything being signed by Lindsey, so anything he said before he did so was tentative at best.
Dissention, you can be sure that given Mick's notoriously litigious nature, he would have sued Lindsey's pants off if a contract were involved.

I think people also tend to forget that when John told Lindsey to leave, Lindsey felt he was being expelled from the band. Up to that point he was trying to talk the rest of the band into accepting that he simply couldn't face the tour. If things hadn't gotten so ugly, he might have done it. It wasn't entirely his fault. But the Lindsey haters will never see it that way.
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  #51  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les
It was a commitment that few in the band - perhaps only Christine - were willing or able to match. He could have left without doing the album. He could have insisted that they wait for him to do the solo album first. He could have insisted upon being allowed to do both, and just doing his personal little bits for Tango and then taking off again with little care about what else happend with the album. He didn't, thankfully.
Wrong

As I pointed out earlier, Stevie came back yet again to FM, perhaps out of love and loyalty, when she clearly did not have to come back because at that time or any other time, save 1997, because she was one of the most popular rock stars in the world and could have continued down that line - after all TOTSTM sold over a million records and had a hit single. Yet, she came back She put up with the same FM BS LB put up with (I mean they were all guitly of it). Then, she went on tour despite it all. So, I think Stevie has the upper hand here But, as Carne noted, this is about CM.
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  #52  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:27 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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I agree he doesn't need the money. But to me, he gets to do what he wants within FMac and make money. He and Christine worked really well together on that album. He was obviously frustrated with Stevie, but at the same time because she was rarely there, he got to "overproduce" as he calls it, w/o much objection. He had said that Christine really went along with what he wanted to do during that album. During Tusk, he got a lot of flack from Mick/John/Stevie and Christine for his idiosyncracies.

I loved TITN! Love it love it love it. And it has the McVie/Buckingham solo feel to it, where SYW has that Nicks/Buckingham solo feel to it.

Anyway Carne you make good points. He could have lived in Cabo Wabo!
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  #53  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dissention
Were any contracts signed? I don't remember reading anything about anything being signed by Lindsey, so anything he said before he did so was tentative at best.

And, from what I hear, fans weren't really disappointed once they went to the concerts. I'll let Chili pipe in with how ecstatic the crowds were.
I remember an article at the time that said the tour was booked and I believe Mick said the tour was booked. Booked means contractual obligations
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  #54  
Old 05-04-2004, 07:29 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Wrong

As I pointed out earlier, Stevie came back to FM when she clearly did not have to come back because at that time, she was one of the most popular rock stars in the world and could have continued down that line - after all TOTSTM sold over a million records and had a hit single. Yet, she came back She put up with the same FM BS LB put up with (I mean they were all guitly of it). Then, she went on tour despite it all. So, I think Stevie has the upper hand here But, as Carne noted, this is about CM.
Absolutely, Stevie Nicks was like Phil Collins. They could have carried on w/o their respective bands. There is no doubt about that. But as Carne noted this is about CM lol!
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  #55  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr
I loved TITN! Love it love it love it. And it has the McVie/Buckingham solo feel to it, where SYW has that Nicks/Buckingham solo feel to it.

Agreed. CM and LB really shine on TITN.
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  #56  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer
Agreed. CM and LB really shine on TITN.
ITA - I think TITN (the song) is one of his best. And - CM just soared on this record, esp. on "Isn't it Midnight?"
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  #57  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr
I can honestly say I didn't hold it against LB for exiting. I remember being really sad.
I was sitting there in front of a television in August 1987, after having spent the spring listening to interviews with Lindsey & Chris discuss how satisfying the "Tango" album was to them, & saw the MTV news clip reporting that he had quit. It was pretty surprising to me, & when MTV played the "Little Lies" video, it was sad. I was disappointed because I hadn't seen Buckingham onstage in five years, & had been looking forward to that.
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I think it was very a respectable job covering the TITN tour on such short notice. I also thought the BTM tour was very good. I know many people did not think so, but I thought that FMac put on a very good show w/o Lindsey. The crowd in Cleveland (where i lived at the time) was going bezerk!
I saw shows in Los Angeles & San Diego, & the audience was a typical Fleetwood Mac concert audience. Everything was fine, from the crowd's perspective. It was everyone's first exposure to post-cocaine Stevie, & I immediately sensed she was "slower." By the time the 1990 tour rolled around, Stevie was proving to be the weak link onstage. The "Mask" shows seemed rather sluggish, despite the fact that they were note-for-note copies of the arrangements on the 1987/88 tour.
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  #58  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Wrong

As I pointed out earlier, Stevie came back yet again to FM, perhaps out of love and loyalty, when she clearly did not have to come back because at that time or any other time, save 1997, because she was one of the most popular rock stars in the world and could have continued down that line - after all TOTSTM sold over a million records and had a hit single. Yet, she came back. She put up with the same FM BS LB put up with (I mean they were all guitly of it). Then, she went on tour despite it all. So, I think Stevie has the upper hand here
You've been listening to Stevie too much, strand. She always did like to emphasize the sacrifice angle, whether about Fleetwood Mac or about her own career or about children & husband & lifestyle & all that, blah blah blah. Maybe she stuck with Fleetwood because she loved the excitement of such a huge band (which seems likely) or because she wanted to help her friend Mick earn some money or for some other reason. Regardless of the reason, it wasn't a sacrifice. She didn't give up a solo career; she had a lovely solo career simultaneously. Fleetwood Mac, after about 1980, didn't prove to be much of a time suck for Stevie: a couple of weeks spent laying down some vocals & then off she went, usually until a tour started. And Fleetwood didn't do a huge trek until 1990, by which time her solo career had most definitely waned (as had Fleetwood Mac's standing).

Personally, I don't like to hear any of them talk about their "sacrifices" in regards to participating in a megaband rolling in fame & fortune year after year. If that's a "sacrifice," nail me up.
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  #59  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by David
You've been listening to Stevie too much, strand. She always did like to emphasize the sacrifice angle, whether about Fleetwood Mac or about her own career or about children & husband & lifestyle & all that, blah blah blah. Maybe she stuck with Fleetwood because she loved the excitement of such a huge band (which seems likely) or because she wanted to help her friend Mick earn some money or for some other reason. Regardless of the reason, it wasn't a sacrifice. She didn't give up a solo career; she had a lovely solo career simultaneously. Fleetwood Mac, after about 1980, didn't prove to be much of a time suck for Stevie: a couple of weeks spent laying down some vocals & then off she went, usually until a tour started. And Fleetwood didn't do a huge trek until 1990, by which time her solo career had most definitely waned (as had Fleetwood Mac's standing).

Personally, I don't like to hear any of them talk about their "sacrifices" in regards to participating in a megaband rolling in fame & fortune year after year. If that's a "sacrifice," nail me up.
I was responding to the previous posts lauding LB for sacrificing his solo record and Les' comment that no other member made such a sacrifice. Stevie has never said she sacrificed her solo career for FM. Rather, she said she was happy to return for Mirage and that her solo career solely was an outlet to get more than four or so songs released every three years. I think she was happy to return for TITN. I just was noting that if it was as bad as LB said and he had to leave because of that, then kudos to Stevie for having the willingess to and for sticking it out despite that drama and despite her post-addiction issues. I mean can you imagine giving up coke and then being thrust back into the world that revolves around it and the same world that you say caused the addiction. So, I gotta give it up for her. That took guts especially when she could have never returned at all.

Note: I, too, get tired of Stevie saying she gave everything up for her music, but that does not negate the fact that she did
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  #60  
Old 05-04-2004, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Wrong
Sorry, Strand, I will never see Stevie's behavior during the Tango sessions in the way that you do. I know she had a tour for part of the time. I know she has some personal problems for part of the time. With those things I sympathize and it's not something I hold against her. But those situations didn't span two years, and I do not see spending 10 days on an album as being a grand gesture of loyalty or commitment to the band. I never will. After having spent virtually no time with the band during the recording, she was in for the tour. Having spent all of his time recording, Lindsey made another choice.

I do not think and did not say that nobody else made sacrifices for this band, or that nobody else made an effort on Tango. But as for who really made the album -- who was there daily to put it together, to toss ideas around -- Lindsey & Christine were. Stevie was almost entirely absent. John and Mick were both struggling greatly with substance abuse issues.
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