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  #46  
Old 09-19-2023, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
But, you love that Over and Over made it, no?
Putting Over and Over on the Live album would be my pick for the best decision the band ever made. OMG the live version takes the song to another level. I cant even imagine me never hearing the live version in such quality. The album version is ok but the live version is off the chain. Its funny but sad when Chris introduces something new from Tusk and the audience is silent. Bruce fans, Rolling Stones fans, or any other band's fans would applaud any new song off the new album.

2 years later: Lindsey introduces a song from Tusk and Chris says to the audience "the album you guys hated"
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2023, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Villavic View Post
I remember I read in 1997 Stevie had a voice therapist to recover her voice and be in good shape for The Dance shows. Well obviously "recover" didn't mean to get her 70s voice again, but I understood she would have a decent nice voice. And IMHO she did. I loved her performances of SS and Landslide.
Her voice was far better than... for example, that 1987 Silent Night performance that never listened again and it's forbidden in my personal playlists, Ipod, etc.

So, a Rhiannon song that sounded like the 70s was impossible in 1997. It wouldn't sound good, and probably her voice therapist told her Don't do that! Then the energic act we used to see in the 70s was gone too. So I found The Dance Rhiannon a fine performance, taking in count years had passed and she had take care of her voice.

Mick mentions the Rhiannon performances and Stevie's excessive abuse singing it several times, just picked two of them:

we took her friend Robin Anderson, a voice therapist, on the road with us to try to train Stevie to use her voice differently. But it was like trying to tame a wild thing. Every night, at the climactic end of "Rhiannon," Stevie would rip her voice to shreds. It was a sacrifice she chose to make for her art.

....
When Stevie's voice cracked dangerously during "Rhiannon," she turned to Lindsey and hid her face behind the microphone. Eight months of touring was beginning to take its toll on all of us.

...
Also in Dallas, Stevie took "Rhiannon" to its outermost limits, chanting "Is this what you want from me?" during the crashing finale of the song.
Nobody expected a 1976 level vocal in 1997. It’s more the boring arrangement and ending that is the problem with Rhiannon for the last 30 years. The lack of the solo and the lack of an interesting vocal performance really drag it down. She was able to put a lot of life and energy into Silver Springs and Gold Dust Woman in 1997. It just seems like Rhiannon is and continues to be an obligation and not a standout moment in the set like it once was.

Also, wellllll it was aaaaaaa…holllllleeeeeeee niiiiighhhht…wellllllll ��
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  #48  
Old 09-19-2023, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
2 years later: Lindsey introduces a song from Tusk and Chris says to the audience "the album you guys hated"
When and where did she say that?
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  #49  
Old 09-19-2023, 10:11 AM
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When and where did she say that?
US Festival 1982

During Sara introduction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlpWwxLZRrw
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 09-19-2023 at 10:15 AM..
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  #50  
Old 09-19-2023, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
So, other than Oh Well, the more listenable songs.
(insert David chuckle here)

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Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know I’m Not Wrong. It’s a bit too much.
Right after they released that album (or maybe a few days before), one of the trashy rock mags (Circus maybe) ran an article that brought up the choice of tracks for the release, wondering why “Station Man” and “The Chain” and “Tusk” were not on it. Mac wasn’t interviewed for the article, so no response was given — the question was just rhetorical. With the album, the band may have been going for weird just to avoid putting out “yet another hit-laden live album,” which they had been known to complain about.

I think that album has plenty of highlights from both eras — certainly “Go Your Own Way” introduced people to a side of the band they would not have known unless they had attended one of the shows — but the decision to use these pseudo-soundcheck performances of “Don’t Stop” and “Dreams” was bizarro. I bet the album was pulled together quickly and hasty non-decisions were made. The tour ended in early September with the plan to release that last show — and on December 8, the album was out. That’s f***ing fast for Fleetwood Mac. You might even call that album a rush job. Imagine someone scrambling around in all those tour stops from the past five years, grabbing songs from here and there. It could not have taken more than a few weeks to do all that work. I don’t even know when new vocals were added (or where). Actually, the only new vocals I can hear are “Sara” (a very bizarre decision to redo the vocal on nearly the entire song) and some backing vocals on “Over and Over.” We’ve always said that the album has a lot of post-production sweetening, but I don’t think it does. There simply wasn’t time. A December 8 release means that mixing, mastering, artwork, marketing, etc., has to be done in November or October. At some point in September, the band reconvened to do the new tracks. Mac left themselves no time to get this Christmas release out the door. Maybe they should have waited until spring but figured that the tour hoopla would have been dead by then.
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Last edited by David; 09-19-2023 at 01:04 PM..
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  #51  
Old 09-19-2023, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Villavic View Post
So, a Rhiannon song that sounded like the 70s was impossible in 1997. It wouldn't sound good, and probably her voice therapist told her Don't do that! Then the energic act we used to see in the 70s was gone too.
A highly unpopular opinion: When I listen to the screaming in the song in the early days, I get a sore throat. And not a good sore throat. I wince. I donít like it. But I love the way the song used to wind out instrumentally, like a snake sunning itself and then coiling and striking. I think the playing is what most of us miss.
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  #52  
Old 09-19-2023, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
So, other than Oh Well, the more listenable songs.

Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know Iím Not Wrong. Itís a bit too much.
Did they play IKINW in 79-80? For whatever reason I thought that one didnít get unearthed until SYW.

The Chain, Tusk, Sisters, You Make Loving Fun, Second Hand News, and a legit recording of Donít Stop belonged on that album well ahead of some of the chosen songs. Iím glad the Tusk Deluxe and Live Deluxe addressed some of the missing links.
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  #53  
Old 09-19-2023, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by David View Post
A highly unpopular opinion: When I listen to the screaming in the song in the early days, I get a sore throat. And not a good sore throat. I wince. I donít like it. But I love the way the song used to wind out instrumentally, like a snake sunning itself and then coiling and striking. I think the playing is what most of us miss.
The arrangement makes the whole thing. The solo, the nice quiet jam that ensues after with Christineís amazing keys, the slow buildup to dreams unwind loves a state of mindÖetc etcÖthe wild part with her screaming, and then the ending all building up to that crescendo at the end - the arrangement is on fire!
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  #54  
Old 09-19-2023, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know Iím Not Wrong. Itís a bit too much.
Not that I want to join the theory that everything is always Mick's fault, but I suspect that the song selection was mainly his:

It was controversial within the band, this record, because I was the only one who wanted to do it. It was not a popular decision. Both John McVie and Lindsey Buckingham thought it was a negative move, but I always bought Greatest Hits albums myself, and I strongly felt there had to be a live document of the band at this point. Besides, we had great material to work with, recorded all over the world: "Monday Morning" from Tokyo, "Say You Love Me" from Wichita, ''Dreams" from the Paris sound check, a psychedelic "Oh Well" from St. Louis, "Rhiannon" from London, and so on. We also set up our gear and played three new songs "live" for an audience of crew and friends at the Santa Monica Civic Center Stevie's "Fireflies," Chris's "One More Night," and a Fleetwood Mac harmony orgy in homage to Brian Wilson's "The Farmer's Daughter."

Later in the year, we released Fleetwood Mac Live as a double album, and it wasn't a big success. There were many accusations of "We told you so," but I have no regrets.
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  #55  
Old 09-19-2023, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Villavic View Post
Not that I want to join the theory that everything is always Mick's fault, but I suspect that the song selection was mainly his:

It was controversial within the band, this record, because I was the only one who wanted to do it. It was not a popular decision. Both John McVie and Lindsey Buckingham thought it was a negative move, but I always bought Greatest Hits albums myself, and I strongly felt there had to be a live document of the band at this point. Besides, we had great material to work with, recorded all over the world: "Monday Morning" from Tokyo, "Say You Love Me" from Wichita, ''Dreams" from the Paris sound check, a psychedelic "Oh Well" from St. Louis, "Rhiannon" from London, and so on. We also set up our gear and played three new songs "live" for an audience of crew and friends at the Santa Monica Civic Center Stevie's "Fireflies," Chris's "One More Night," and a Fleetwood Mac harmony orgy in homage to Brian Wilson's "The Farmer's Daughter."

Later in the year, we released Fleetwood Mac Live as a double album, and it wasn't a big success. There were many accusations of "We told you so," but I have no regrets.
If Mick was to ďblameĒ then Iím glad he did it. Iíve always loved the Live album even if some of the song choices were weird.
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  #56  
Old 09-19-2023, 05:56 PM
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If Mick was to “blame” then I’m glad he did it. I’ve always loved the Live album even if some of the song choices were weird.
Absolutely. Mick's unpopular opinion was one of the best decisions ever. To professionally capture the band at the peak of their powers. It has some of the best versions of some songs ever. I would not have included the new songs, Farmers Daughter, and Not That Funny and had room for The Chain, Sisters, and YMLF. Fleetwood Mac live was a different band back in those days and its so nice to have an album to prove it.
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  #57  
Old 09-19-2023, 06:45 PM
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If Mick was to ďblameĒ then Iím glad he did it. Iíve always loved the Live album even if some of the song choices were weird.
Me too! I love it, and never understood why it was a bad move. I remember the day it came out. I came running out of K-mart, struggling to get the shrink wrap off of those dual 8- tracks!
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  #58  
Old 09-19-2023, 07:02 PM
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Me too! I love it, and never understood why it was a bad move. I remember the day it came out. I came running out of K-mart, struggling to get the shrink wrap off of those dual 8- tracks!
As a mere infant when it was released, it was a solid 18 or so years before I got a hold of it. In my post-Dance infatuation with getting as much information on the band, it was absolutely jarring to hear the difference between the polished gloss of The Dance and the stuff off the Live album. I absolutely adored it from the first listen. That Rhiannon alone was worth the price of the double CD. Sara, Go Your Own Way, Iím So Afraid, Over and Over (with that ďlet me dowwwwwn againĒ from L&S)Ötotally amazing. I still canít drive to Cleveland without playing GYOW just to align my travel with that ďCLEVELAND! Thank you very much we love you!Ē at the end.
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  #59  
Old 09-19-2023, 07:32 PM
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For years and years I loved the version of Landslide on the Live album. Sure her voice is worn out, but something about her phrasing and delivery of the song just totally captivated me. And I've always preferred Landslide with Chris playing the solo in the middle that Lindsey played on the electric guitar on the album.
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  #60  
Old 09-19-2023, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
YES!
One of the few klonopin era songs that was really good live. Her band rocked the hell out of Rhiannon.

I would hardly call her 1981 version lame (someone else said that). Roy's intro was beautiful and Waddy really created a rocking bouncer. It lost its power on her next tours but it still packed a punch. I feel after her solo version she did not know where to take the song in 1982. We got coke fueled speaking in tongues for Sisters but her talking and going through the motions at the end of Rhiannon "I dont change, you dont change" She did the same thing in 1987 for a rare early Tango tour version. But that's understandable since she was off coke. I love all Mirage concert songs except Rhiannon. Its slow and she seems to struggle and wonder through it. It should have been just as outrageous as her 1982 Sisters but it falls flat for me.
Hi Macfan4life,

I was going to say that the ending with "I don't change, you don't change, (it's all the same, Rhian..non)" Falls flat for me in my previous post, above, so you have expressed the same emotion I felt as I was hearing this ending, the first time I heard it, exactly!

Compare this to the "Take me with you", which is a more positive 'up' emotion and when she sings it, we, the audience, can relate to her more. Just my opinion, of course.
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