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  #46  
Old 01-03-2024, 06:42 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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If people really want to say their legacy wasn’t impacted when they played a tour with Orleans, Pat Benatar, and REO Speedwagon, and released an album that never even charted on Billboard’s Top 200 album list, but that it was destroyed when Lindsey was fired and they successfully toured one last time, well, Cognitive Dissonance is a real thing.
For me, at least the Time lineup actually did an album. The 2018 lineup had no creative output, not even a rerecording of the classic songs like many bands do when they have members who weren't original ones. (KISS, Blondie, Journey, Foreigner)

It's one thing to do a nostalgia setlist with original members, but doing one without especially when Lindsey was alive, to me seems wrong. That 2018 setlist shouldn't have featured any Lindsey songs and Stevie should have been singing Crystal, Angel, Sara, Love Is Dangerous in addition to her hits and Christine should have been singing As Long As You Follow, Love in Store, Warm Ways, and Brown Eyes in addition to her hits. DDIO and I Got You should have been scrapped for In the Back of My Mind and Stand on the Rock. And Freedom should have been the first encore song rather than Free Fallin'.

Again, saw the show four times, but found it boring after all the hype in the press when the lineup was announced in April 2018 on CBS and in RollingStone.

Last edited by UnwindedDreams; 01-03-2024 at 06:44 AM..
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  #47  
Old 01-03-2024, 06:46 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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That was a one time gig on the 4th of July promoted by a radio station in Tampa in 1996. I am sure she got paid fairly well to perform. Since it was not from a major tour production is why the stage was small and it looked so random. I think she performed 5 songs.
She did a radio show outdoors in Boston that year too. She performed Twisted!
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  #48  
Old 01-03-2024, 10:15 AM
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For me, at least the Time lineup actually did an album. The 2018 lineup had no creative output, not even a rerecording of the classic songs like many bands do when they have members who weren't original ones. (KISS, Blondie, Journey, Foreigner)

It's one thing to do a nostalgia setlist with original members, but doing one without especially when Lindsey was alive, to me seems wrong. That 2018 setlist shouldn't have featured any Lindsey songs and Stevie should have been singing Crystal, Angel, Sara, Love Is Dangerous in addition to her hits and Christine should have been singing As Long As You Follow, Love in Store, Warm Ways, and Brown Eyes in addition to her hits. DDIO and I Got You should have been scrapped for In the Back of My Mind and Stand on the Rock. And Freedom should have been the first encore song rather than Free Fallin'.
If FM had performed the songs youíd suggested, I would have gone to as many concerts as possible! Having said that, I really did enjoy DDIO.

Since they didnít record anything new (or old), I actually think that makes it even easier to say their legacy is still firmly intact. A recording would have cemented that this was a new lineup, but without that, thereís really nothing tangible that this was a new lineup. If they had recorded a new album and it had bombed or gotten bad reviews, like they did Time, and if they had performed at smaller venues with several other bands on the bill, then yes, their legacy would have been impacted horribly. That didnít happen in this case. I think history will show that even though Lindsey was fired, for all intents and purposes he was a member of FM. Christineís passing is ultimately what led to the band no longer being active. Just my opinion, of course.
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  #49  
Old 01-03-2024, 10:59 AM
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What was really shady (how they treated Lindsey aside!) about the 2018 tour was the amount of PR they kicked up declaring that they were a new band entering a new chapter with all the hoopla/hinting to the possibility of new music etc.....and not an ounce of it wound up being true. Which most fans knew and were not surprised, but it still sucked. They tried to mix up the setlist with a bunch of material that hadn't been done in decades and they wound up axing that before the end of the first leg.

That "cover" (atrocity) of Gypsy they did on Ellen is still quite possibly the cringiest professionally recorded live performance of any 75-87 lineup material to date.

The weird shift of Stevie-centric Fleetwood Mac fans coming out of the woodwork as faux advocates of the pre-75 material to justify what was happening was particularly hilarious. A lot of folks had no problem lining up behind Mick's "new band, our legacy IS the revolving door of our lineup" sales pitch. What an odd attempt to dismiss the previous 21 years of the Dance era reformation of the band and a backhanded way to acknowledge all of the other lineups.
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  #50  
Old 01-03-2024, 11:22 AM
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IMO part of their legacy since 1997 was being known as a turbulent band that eventually made amends and worked together for 18 years between 97 and 2015.

That was completely shattered when the pettiness of the 2018 events occurred. Now they're grouped with all of the other bands from the same era that can't stand one another and ultimately ended on a sour note.

Sadly as Christine mentioned in one of her final interviews, people always talk about the fighting but they actually had a lot of fun and laughs. In the end, the infamous infighting reputation won over anything else.
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  #51  
Old 01-03-2024, 11:42 AM
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IMO part of their legacy since 1997 was being known as a turbulent band that eventually made amends and worked together for 18 years between 97 and 2015.

That was completely shattered when the pettiness of the 2018 events occurred. Now they're grouped with all of the other bands from the same era that can't stand one another and ultimately ended on a sour note.

Sadly as Christine mentioned in one of her final interviews, people always talk about the fighting but they actually had a lot of fun and laughs. In the end, the infamous infighting reputation won over anything else.
BUT.......
That was only a facade. In that 1994 Details interview with Stevie she says there will not be a Fleetwood Mac reunion with her and Chris. She also said that Lindsey hates her. She was in a panic phase with no Fleetwood Mac career and a tanking solo career. They all regrouped for a giant pay day. It was an assumption they made amends but Stevie and Lindsey never did. They played nice on stage but constantly bothered each other with petty antics.
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  #52  
Old 01-03-2024, 12:07 PM
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BUT.......
That was only a facade. In that 1994 Details interview with Stevie she says there will not be a Fleetwood Mac reunion with her and Chris. She also said that Lindsey hates her. She was in a panic phase with no Fleetwood Mac career and a tanking solo career. They all regrouped for a giant pay day. It was an assumption they made amends but Stevie and Lindsey never did. They played nice on stage but constantly bothered each other with petty antics.
Maybe the truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between. I go along with BigAl, that they did make amends and got along reasonably well between 1995-2014. Lindsey recorded Twisted with Stevie, so that right there shows they were both open to reconciliation at that point. Then the Dance happened and they were probably shocked at how well that tour went, as well as the financial windfall it afforded all of them. Itís easy to get along when youíre on a high, which Iím sure the Dance tour was.

Clearly there was a change during and after Say You Will. But up to that point, I absolutely believe they had all truly reconciled any big issues and they were getting along.
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  #53  
Old 01-03-2024, 12:33 PM
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Maybe the truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between. I go along with BigAl, that they did make amends and got along reasonably well between 1995-2014. Lindsey recorded Twisted with Stevie, so that right there shows they were both open to reconciliation at that point. Then the Dance happened and they were probably shocked at how well that tour went, as well as the financial windfall it afforded all of them. Itís easy to get along when youíre on a high, which Iím sure the Dance tour was.

Clearly there was a change during and after Say You Will. But up to that point, I absolutely believe they had all truly reconciled any big issues and they were getting along.
I take Chris at her word when she said her and John made up and get along great but Stevie and Lindsey never did. They are constantly fighting. Its amazing what people will do and look past for large amounts of money. Stevie despised Mick for awhile and swore she would never go back to the Mac. In her darkest hour rejoining was too good to pass up. After the inaugural ball the band went out of their way to tell people. NO. We are not reuniting. Sorry. Stevie hated the SYW process and we got a glimpse of it on the documentary. Lindsey knows how to push her buttons and vice versa. Just think: Go Insane was about Stevie. When he broke up with his girlfriend, the line "She's alot like you" was meant for Stevie. You know things are crazy when the name of your album and lead single is GO INSANE. And this was years before their big blowout.
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  #54  
Old 01-03-2024, 12:54 PM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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If FM had performed the songs you’d suggested, I would have gone to as many concerts as possible! Having said that, I really did enjoy DDIO.

Since they didn’t record anything new (or old), I actually think that makes it even easier to say their legacy is still firmly intact. A recording would have cemented that this was a new lineup, but without that, there’s really nothing tangible that this was a new lineup. If they had recorded a new album and it had bombed or gotten bad reviews, like they did Time, and if they had performed at smaller venues with several other bands on the bill, then yes, their legacy would have been impacted horribly. That didn’t happen in this case. I think history will show that even though Lindsey was fired, for all intents and purposes he was a member of FM. Christine’s passing is ultimately what led to the band no longer being active. Just my opinion, of course.
On the second to last sentence, Mick went out of his way on the 2023 Grammys Red Carpet to say FM survived loss before.

If Mike and Neil Fleetwood Mac released new music, they would not have played smaller venues. I supported the lineup change because I’m a Stevie fan first. But I was let down and I should have known after the Ellen performance and the more than predictable set at the iheart Music Festival, that I shouldn’t have bought tickets to more shows! I end the Fleetwood Mac story with the OWTS Tour which played 3 nights at MSG and 1 on Long Island, 5 nights in New England, 5 at The Forum, 2 in DC, 2 in Vancouver, 3 in Chicago, 2 in Atlanta, 3 in NJ, 5 nights all over Texas, and 6 in London.

Last edited by UnwindedDreams; 01-03-2024 at 01:01 PM..
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  #55  
Old 01-03-2024, 01:11 PM
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One of the really weird occurrences in 2011 was when Stevie called Lindsey and asked him to help out with her song ďSoldierís Angel.Ē As everyone knows, he showed up, helped her put together an arrangement, he was pleased with it, she was pleased with it, they were both pleased with each other, and that was that.

It was a weird oasis of friendship in a stormy sea of loathing over the years. Granted, it was only three or four days, but still. Maybe thatís how they should have worked together from 1998 on ó three or four days at a time on a single track, and then get out of each otherís hair for two years.
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  #56  
Old 01-04-2024, 09:49 AM
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I think Lindsey truly moved on, more so than Stevie. That doesn't mean that he didn't know how to push some buttons. I don't think Lindsey held onto much resentment of any kind, even regarding their past relationship.

I think the 2011 "phone call of the ages" was a good example of the ongoing list of issues with Lindsey that Stevie still hadn't made peace with, was still holding onto etc. Lindsey even seemed a little surprised/taken back by it when it was discussed in interviews at the time. In 2011 she was still had grudges going back to 1968 apparently.

I'll always go back to the comments Stevie made about the 2009 tour. She didn't necessarily like it and described it as "benign" because there was no conflict with Lindsey. She pretty much admitted that for her, it was the conflict and friction that made performing with him interesting/normal.

I got the impression that in the later years, Lindsey may have managed his interactions with her in a brother & sister kind of way...i.e. banging on the wall when the music was too loud. In contrast, I think Stevie still internally evaluated every conflict with him as some sort of divorcing-couples conflict and reacted accordingly in a very scorched earth kind of way.

Christine is probably right. They made amends to a degree, but not in the way she and John did. I think Lindsey was capable of it and pretty close to it. I question Stevie's ability to ever get to that point.
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  #57  
Old 01-04-2024, 10:38 AM
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Stevieís whole identity in the last 20 years has been about what a poor victim she has been. Lindsey is the star villain in her story and she has to continue to perpetuate that in order to keep herself interesting to whatever new audience she has built around her in the last decade or so. Poor Stevie - Lindsey yelled at her. He didnít like her signed copy of Bella Donna. He said she wasnít Bob Dylan. He said her music was too loud. He made her pose naked 50 years ago. Go on TikTok and any FM or SN video is full of comments stating Lindsey basically beat the crap out of her for decades.

And it isnít just him. At some point just about everybody sheís worked with or been involved with in any capacity has wronged her mercilessly and is part of her story overcoming all the evilness. Sheís exhausting.
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  #58  
Old 01-05-2024, 11:28 PM
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Stevieís whole identity in the last 20 years has been about what a poor victim she has been. Lindsey is the star villain in her story and she has to continue to perpetuate that in order to keep herself interesting to whatever new audience she has built around her in the last decade or so. Poor Stevie - Lindsey yelled at her. He didnít like her signed copy of Bella Donna. He said she wasnít Bob Dylan. He said her music was too loud. He made her pose naked 50 years ago. Go on TikTok and any FM or SN video is full of comments stating Lindsey basically beat the crap out of her for decades.

And it isnít just him. At some point just about everybody sheís worked with or been involved with in any capacity has wronged her mercilessly and is part of her story overcoming all the evilness. Sheís exhausting.
Indeed, let's not forget how many feuds she's had over the years with Mick. Their feud when he wouldn't let her use Silver Springs is probably the most famous, with that one she didn't talk to him in a long time. But they've had many over the years. Drama, drama.
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  #59  
Old 01-06-2024, 07:24 AM
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Indeed, let's not forget how many feuds she's had over the years with Mick. Their feud when he wouldn't let her use Silver Springs is probably the most famous, with that one she didn't talk to him in a long time. But they've had many over the years. Drama, drama.
Oh of course. And that whole Silver Springs thing was rather ridiculous and never made sense. By that time she had been a solo artist for a decade and had done what, 4 major solo tours? Why wasnít Silver Springs ever part of her set? Or why didnít she just re-record the damn song a la Taylor Swift, release it on one of her albums and tell Mick to fly a kite? And Iíll go to my grave feeling I Donít Want to Know was perfect on Rumours and superior to having Silver Springs on it.

But again, poor wittle Stevie is allllways the victim. Everyone is so mean to her!!
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Old 01-06-2024, 07:43 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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Oh of course. And that whole Silver Springs thing was rather ridiculous and never made sense. By that time she had been a solo artist for a decade and had done what, 4 major solo tours? Why wasn’t Silver Springs ever part of her set? Or why didn’t she just re-record the damn song a la Taylor Swift, release it on one of her albums and tell Mick to fly a kite? And I’ll go to my grave feeling I Don’t Want to Know was perfect on Rumours and superior to having Silver Springs on it.

But again, poor wittle Stevie is allllways the victim. Everyone is so mean to her!!
Last year she proclaimed that Silver Springs made The Dance a #1 album. Landslide was the "hit" from that album and it wasn't the song Silver Springs that is what's talked about... it's her and Lindsey singing to each other but she won't mention Lindsey's role in that performance. She'll just say that he was a bum who didn't work in his 20s, even though the arrangement was made between them or let's sue her favorite term "pact" that she'd work low-skilled jobs so he could work on the music. And this was 50 years ago, talk about holding on to things!
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