Democrats Say Rice Misled About Iraq War - Page 6

dissention · #76 01-27-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I diagree and the numbers for the other parties do not support that. I think almost all progressives knew that it was important to vote for Kerry no matter the cost to their pride because W was and is FAR worse. Didn;t you do that?

Of course I did. But I could tell you stories that would make you blush of how many people I know and random strangers I've spoken to who refused to vote for Kerry because of the things he said. He treated us true liberals as if we were the bastard stepchildren of the Democratic party. And that's why people are now leaving that party in droves.

strandinthewind · #77 01-27-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

No gay marriage = conservative
Civil Unions/no Amendment = moderate
gay marriage = liberal

If people voted for no gay marriage, I think it's safe to bet they have right leanings.

While you're correct in saying that right now Americans don't favor gay marriage, that landscape is changing. I also think there's many who disapprove of the Amendment, regardless of their position.

The state amendments passed at higher than 70% in most states. If change is coming those numbers do not reflect it

I think there well never be a Federal Const. Amendment because it takes too many votes. But, if the state numbers and the national poll numbers are any indication, the public wants to ban gay marriage.

SuzeQuze · #78 01-27-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

.... He needed a concrete plan in five words or less and he never found one

Finally, Kerry was and is seen as an elitist. W is not even though W's family is.

You can't speak the way Dubya does and be seen as elitist.

If you spoke with any of my family you would wonder where the hell my vocabulary came from. Just because he doesn't sound elitist doesn't mean he isn't, I think people are getting elitist confused with bright and knowledgable which used to be desired traits.

Regarding Kerry, you hit the nail right on the head above and are absolutely right. He might have won if he could have articulated a specific plan for Iraq. But he doesn't talk in specifics because he suffers from analysis paralysis and thus is ineffective. I think people saw that in him and just didn't see him as doing anything for them.

dissention · #79 01-27-2005, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The state amendments passed at higher than 70% in most states. If change is coming those numbers do not reflect it

I think there well never be a Federal Const. Amendment because it takes too many votes. But, if the state numbers and the national poll numbers are any indication, the public wants to ban gay marriage.

Look at youth attitudes concerning gay marriage. The landscape is changing.

GypsySorcerer · #80 01-27-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The state amendments passed at higher than 70% in most states. If change is coming those numbers do not reflect it

I think there well never be a Federal Const. Amendment because it takes too many votes. But, if the state numbers and the national poll numbers are any indication, the public wants to ban gay marriage.

With the exception of Oregon, those were all red states.

dissention · #81 01-27-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

You can't speak the way Dubya does and be seen as elitist.

Is our children learning?

strandinthewind · #82 01-27-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Of course I did. But I could tell you stories that would make you blush of how many people I know and random strangers I've spoken to who refused to vote for Kerry because of the things he said. He treated us true liberals as if we were the bastard stepchildren of the Democratic party. And that's why people are now leaving that party in droves.

But, back to my original point, the far far left is not the D party - it never has been. AND - even if those people leave now, I suspect a fair percentage will be back in 2008 depending on who the R candiate is. Moreover, the numbers of the far far left are not that significant when compared to the moderates

Ain't politics grand

GypsySorcerer · #83 01-27-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, back to my original point, the far far left is not the D party - it never has been. AND - even if those people leave now, I suspect a fair percentage will be back in 2008 depending on who the R candiate is. Moreover, the numbers of the far far left are not that significant when compared to the moderates

Ain't politics grand

The D's need to build up their urban voters. Because of sheer numbers, they'd win over rural America.

SuzeQuze · #84 01-27-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Is our children learning?

I know that the human being and fish can coexist peacefully!

dissention · #85 01-27-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, back to my original point, the far far left is not the D party - it never has been.

And I never argued otherwise. I'm simply pointing out that as the years wear on, the Democratic party becomes more and more conservative. And that's not a way to win votes.

dissention · #86 01-27-2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

I know that the human being and fish can coexist peacefully!

I did denounce bigotry and I did denounce interracial marriage!

strandinthewind · #87 01-27-2005, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

You can't speak the way Dubya does and be seen as elitist.

If you spoke with any of my family you would wonder where the hell my vocabulary came from. Just because he doesn't sound elitist doesn't mean he isn't, I think people are getting elitist confused with bright and knowledgable which used to be desired traits.

ITA - I have said more than once that people loved Clinton and Bush for the same reason - they both come across as real people and nonelitist. Granted Clinton had far humbler beginnings than W, but Clinton was a Rhode scholar, which is pretty elite

W is also well educated and, IMO FAR from dumb - despite his inability to speak - I mean you cannot be an idiot and fly a jet fighter. But, they both come across as real people to the general public. That is what makes them well liked even when they are lying

dissention · #88 01-27-2005, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

The D's need to build up their urban voters. Because of sheer numbers, they'd win over rural America.

But, see, they're too concerned with winning over rural America. And they'll do and say anything to do it. Problem is, they can't face the reality that it's not going to happen.

SuzeQuze · #89 01-27-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

I did denounce bigotry and I did denounce interracial marriage!

I know what sovereignty means, it means that you are sovereign, that you have...that you're sovereign...

strandinthewind · #90 01-27-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Look at youth attitudes concerning gay marriage. The landscape is changing.

True - but we are talking 20 years or so from now. Who the hell knows what will happen then. Plus, they could always change their minds after years of demionizing gay people by their religious leaders