W shows true abortion colors - Page 15

dissention · #**211** 01-26-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

It's worse than you think. Welfare is barely enough to live on. Oh, and I don't know about your dole, but of course, here, you can mainly only get welfare if you have children. And again, you can barely support them on it. It doesn't pay for school or child care while you are working/going to school. Of course, you can usually get more financial aid from school if you have kids...when I was young, you couldn't work even a little when you were on it, else they'd take it out of your funding - so no part time jobs. I think it is different now..

Blame it on Clinton. His Welfare Reform Act is a despicable piece of **** and showed how out of touch he was when it came to reality. If there's no one can find a reason to dislike him, that's one.

amber · #**212** 01-26-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Blame it on Clinton. His Welfare Reform Act is a despicable piece of **** and showed how out of touch he was when it came to reality. If there's no one can find a reason to dislike him, that's one.

I sure will blame him, but it was also bad during the Reagan years...baaaad....

strandinthewind · #**213** 01-26-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Blame it on Clinton. His Welfare Reform Act is a despicable piece of **** and showed how out of touch he was when it came to reality. If there's no one can find a reason to dislike him, that's one.

I think everyone agrees that Welfare Reform is greatly needed as the system is out of date and widely abused. But, what is the solution? It is easy to say that program was bad, etc. But, no one is willing to offer a solution everyone can agree on

Here are some articles on the Clinton era welfare plan for those interested:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/...inton.welfare/

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/wel...2.welfare.html

http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Bill..._+_Poverty.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...re/welfare.htm

SuzeQuze · #**214** 01-26-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

Jesus, that sure would have made my life a lot better and different!

Same, I could have gotten out of my 'rents house a lot sooner than I did and maybe wouldn't have felt pressure to move in with someone when I didn't really want to. Crazy. I was making just under $8 an hour out of college. Damn bachelors in psych. What a kick in the pants that was.

irishgrl · #**215** 01-26-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

It doesn't pay for school or child care while you are working/going to school.

actually, Amber, it does. it doesnt pay much, but it pays. and it also pays a per mile transportation expense or provides bus tickets.

Quote:

Blame it on Clinton. His Welfare Reform Act is a despicable piece of **** and showed how out of touch he was when it came to reality. If there's no one can find a reason to dislike him, that's one.

Diss, Clinton didnt author that, and he DID try to soften it, but with a new Republican majority in Congress mid-term, Clinton's hands were tied.

more later, I am at work.

amber · #**216** 01-26-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishgrl

actually, Amber, it does. it doesnt pay much, but it pays. and it also pays a per mile transportation expense or provides bus tickets.

Diss, Clinton didnt author that, and he DID try to soften it, but with a new Republican majority in Congress mid-term, Clinton's hands were tied.

more later, I am at work.

It didn't used to.

irishgrl · #**217** 01-26-2005, 09:34 PM

there have been quite a few changes just since I started working for social services 2 1/2 years ago...its so hard to keep up with new changes for each program....and the CALWORKS component is different than what most people think of when they think of "welfare worker" ....That is actually the "eligibility worker," and the Calworks worker is the one you work with to get yourself groomed to eventually become self sufficient. This can now include going to school up to a Bachelor's degree (which is different from MY days on welfare)
and the old two year time limit is no more. If you are already in school, your classes can now count toward your work requirement. I think this is a step in the right direction because an EDUCATED population is a working population.

unfortunately, the funding for things like car repairs so people can GO to work has dried up (Thank YOU Bush) and childcare funds are also scarce. Depending upon where you live, the only way you can make it is if you get on the waiting list for section 8 housing assistance (thru HUD) or have multiple roommates...but THAT has drawbacks too IMO!

strandinthewind · #**218** 01-26-2005, 10:00 PM

I just do not know how to solve the welfare problem and clearly there exist many problems such as abuse, neglect, time constraints, etc. I think no one wants to use tax dollars for able bodied people who just do not want to work, At the same time, many people cannot work because they cannot get a job because they have no education or a criminal record, which sadly is prevelant at this level (I think there is a direct causation - but that is another argument

)

In the end, I think some sort of work study program is the best - though how it would be implemented is beyond me. I mean how long can someone "stay on the teet" before it becomes abuse.

Food for though and meant to be thought provoking not antagonistic

irishgrl · #**219** 01-26-2005, 11:10 PM

Jason, there are two good things that came out of welfare reform, namely
time limits (60 month LIFETIME limit for EVERYONE) and the Maximum Family Grant Rule (no extra money for extra kids) Some states continue to carry the kids when the adults reach their 60 months and some dont. but the upshot is, people know there is a LIMIT, and they wont get extra $$$ by having more babies. I also think our borders need to be stronger, and our public assistance limited to LEGAL RESIDENTS. (I know there are people that wont agree with that but in CA there is a HUGE amount of $$ being spent on illegal aliens and it makes me sick when I see the prevalence of homelessness of our own citizens, some of them former Vietnam vets....ah well....

The good thing is that the 2 yr limit in CA for educational goals has been eliminated. NO ONE is going to be competitive with an AA/AS degree...
There are some things I think the government should re-implement: does anyone remember the ambitious road and bridge and dam building projects this country embarked on to pull America out of the Depression? I think that would be a useful thing to restart...give workers a trade, rebuild our roads/bridges/dams etc and its a win/win situation all around! I also think we should reopen our old manufacturing plants, or build new ones. its a grave mistake for us to be outsourcing so much. Corporate GREED has crippled this nation...I only hope its not too late to change the present course...

strandinthewind · #**220** 01-27-2005, 10:33 AM

Oh ITA - the govt. should use FDR Depression Era work projects or similar things. Sometimes I just look around and think "why the hell doesn't the govt. fix this road or that building, etc."

In sum, I think the system we have in place is for the most part working - it just neess to be tweaked to meet the needs of those really in need a little better

irishgrl · #**221** 01-27-2005, 03:50 PM

people who begin working (or restart!) develop pride in self sufficiency. there is a good feeling getting those paychecks and knowing that YOU are taking care of your own family. sometimes people DO need help and single women especially are vulnerable and behind the 8-ball regarding skills/education. They are already discriminated against (its subtle but it is STILL happening, and there is STILL a glass ceiling, and a disparity in wages between the genders) so, every woman owes it to herself and her children to better herself anyway possible....

GypsySorcerer · #**222** 01-27-2005, 10:30 PM

I think abortion will remain legal. As long as it is, it will remain a rallying cry for Republicans to keep their base.

What I do worry about is the further restricting of abortion, as we have already seen beginning.

dissention · #**223** 01-27-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

I think abortion will remain legal. As long as it is, it will remain a rallying cry for Republicans to keep their base.

I've been thinking the same thing. I think it's more of a power play than anything else. They'll never try to strike down abortion, they'd stand to lose too much politically. They wouldn't have that card to play anymore. But, if they did strike it down, they could always use the threat of liberals coming back to reinstate it.

amber · #**224** 01-28-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

I've been thinking the same thing. I think it's more of a power play than anything else. They'll never try to strike down abortion, they'd stand to lose too much politically. They wouldn't have that card to play anymore. But, if they did strike it down, they could always use the threat of liberals coming back to reinstate it.

Dang! So sneaky, so smart, so evil