Democrats Say Rice Misled About Iraq War

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Keep your eye on the ball, dear, it had nothing to do with the Democrats. You're the one that brought them into the fold.

Hmmmm - five pages of the discussion of the D party compared to like three posts about McCain which were in the context of the future of the D party

<--------- you deserved that for trying to pull that spin

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by dissention

No, we were talking about McCain and how he supported Iraq. Then you piped up and said that most Democrats did, too. That's what we were discussing.

Mcain and those democrats supported Iraq before they knew it would be a disaster and believed Bush's lies. Once he figured that all out, he was against the war.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Not anymore.

Quote me on that.

how are the votes going to flee from the moderates? I am asking because I am curious - I am not being snarky. I mean there is 200 years of this history with few exceptions. The only way I think that will happen is if W screws up even more and the R candidate is miserable. But, W really cannot screw up anymore than he has.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Hmmmm - five pages of the discussion of the D party compared to like three posts about McCain which were in the context of the future of the D party

<--------- you deserved that for trying to pull that spin

Talk about spin, you're the master at it. This is from the first post mentioning McCain by Hawkeye:

The guy I want to be president in 08 is John Mcain. I know you dislike him for some reason Diss, but he's against the Iraq war and for helping the enviroment, and probably more of a democrat then some democrats.

Nowhere in that post does he relate his feelings about McCain to our discussion of the stage the Democrats are currently at when it comes to winning national elections. Then you tried to spin it into a "Democrats don't oppose Iraq" type thing.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Mcain and those democrats supported Iraq before they knew it would be a disaster and believed Bush's lies. Once he figured that all out, he was against the war.

BULL****

Do you honestly believe that the Senate was given the same intel we were? If so, I've got a swamp to sell you in Florida. Even I knew the intel was bogus and that Saddam had nothing, McCain did, too. And he still supports the invasion and occupation of Iraq. He votes with Shrubya every time he needs more of our money to waste.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by dissention

Talk about spin, you're the master at it. This is from the first post mentioning McCain by Hawkeye:

The guy I want to be president in 08 is John Mcain. I know you dislike him for some reason Diss, but he's against the Iraq war and for helping the enviroment, and probably more of a democrat then some democrats.

Nowhere in that post does he relate his feelings about McCain to our discussion of the stage the Democrats are currently at when it comes to winning national elections. Then you tried to spin it into a "Democrats don't oppose Iraq" type thing.

I brought up Mcain because you guys were talking about democrats not being democrats soit made me think of Mcain who I want to be president who is kind of like the oppisitte.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Talk about spin, you're the master at it. This is from the first post mentioning McCain by Hawkeye:

The guy I want to be president in 08 is John Mcain. I know you dislike him for some reason Diss, but he's against the Iraq war and for helping the enviroment, and probably more of a democrat then some democrats.

Nowhere in that post does he relate his feelings about McCain to our discussion of the stage the Democrats are currently at when it comes to winning national elections. Then you tried to spin it into a "Democrats don't oppose Iraq" type thing.

well, despite Hawkeye's observations, I was talking about it in the context of the future of the D party. I think he was as well. But, if you took it differently, so be it.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I brought up Mcain because you guys were talking about democrats not being democrats soit made me think of Mcain who I want to be president who is kind of like the oppisitte.

McCain needs to retire. Plain and simple. He makes me sick. The day I stand and announce my support for the man who said my "mixed" son was the product of having an affair is the day I piss ice cubes and announce my conversion to Christianity. McCain needs to go away and find some integrity.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

BULL****

Do you honestly believe that the Senate was given the same intel we were? If so, I've got a swamp to sell you in Florida. Even I knew the intel was bogus and that Saddam had nothing, McCain did, too. And he still supports the invasion and occupation of Iraq. He votes with Shrubya every time he needs more of our money to waste.

Lord here we go again, the world though SH had WMD and the UN voted unanimously for him to account for it. He initially balked and then in the end complied. W would have none of that and jumped the gun.

Interestingly and hypertechnically, it was not that SH had or did not have WMD - it was that he refused to account for them. That was what he was being hounded to do. All he had to do was say - here is the country - go and look - knock youself out AND - here are all of our records - knock youself out. Yet, he did not do that for many many years. So, while I think W was wrong to invade when he did and he could have waited until the inspections were done, SH did not have clean hands and pretty much has the brunt of this on his insane shoulders.

Again and to be clear - I think W was wring to invade Iraq when he did and how he did.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Lord here we go again, the world though SH had WMD and the UN voted unanimously for him to account for it. He initially balked and then in the end complied. W would have none of that and jumped the gun.

Interestingly and hypertechnically, it was not that SH had or did not have WMD - it was that he refused to account for them. That was what he was being hounded to do. All he had to do was say - here is the country - go and look - knock youself out AND - here are all of our records - knock youself out. Yet, he did not do that for many many years. So, while I think W was wrong to invade when he did and he could have waited until the inspections were done, SH did not have clean hands and pretty much has the brunt of this on his insane shoulders.

Again and to be clear - I think W was wring to invade Iraq when he did and how he did.

Wrong as you are, I'm not taking the bait.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Wrong as you are, I'm not taking the bait.

Okay - so the UN did not repeadtedly find SH had not accounted for his WMD and did not in the end unanimously vote to find SH in breach of his duty to prove he had disarmed - that never happened. Then, SH welcomed with open arms and a pre-inspection tea and lawn party, the US, the UN, and the inspectors and allowed them access into his palaces and other places he had formerly balked at inspections in. SH was always 100% compliant with the UN and all of this tommyrot was the US making up that SH was non complaint. Finally, the UN, France, and probably Russia had not been bought by SH to ensure no UN military action

Agan, this does not excuse W for manipulating the truth and making people think SH and OBL were in bed together - nor does it excuse his rush to a war that perhaps the end of the inpsections could have avoided and in this rush he sent in too few ill equipped troops with an ill advised plan and some of the troops were not properly trained and thus tortured prisoners. Those are nad acts that fall solidly on W's shoulders.

But, to say or imply that Iraq did not deserve a closer look after 9/11 (no direct connection to 9/11 exists, but they were still a terrorist state with a history of invading countries and with a maniac at the helm) - is not really fair.

On edit - I want to be clear that W has behaved pig headedly and without care or regard for the well being of American soldiers and the Iraqi people we are there to liberate. I just think that the initial re-look at Iraq was warranted.