WAS SAY YOU WILL A BOMB? Please Read

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by LukeA

I disagree. "Peacekeeper" was set to be the lead single of "Gift of Screws" in Summer 2000, and that recording is probably the most accessible (and one of the very finest) song of his entire solo career. If he truly favored his solo output over his contributions to SYW, no way he "gives" that to the project.

I recall wrinkling my nose a bit when I first saw the track listing for SYW. Where was "Down on Rodeo?" "She Smiled Sweetly?" "The Right Time to Fade?" "I Am Waiting?" "Gift of Screws?" Instead SYW ended up with the most uncatchy, self-indulgent stuff Lindsey's aborted solo album: "Red Rover," "Come," "Murrow," etc., which don't even feature Stevie on vocals! Don't get me wrong; in the right context (i.e., solo) those are pretty amazing songs. But I think they were too morose, dark and oblique for a group effort. I can imagine that many FM fans balked at the amount of CD real estate being devoted to these decidedly inaccessible songs. I think "Down on Rodeo" could have been an amazing Fleetwood Mac song, perhaps the defining moment of the whole album.

As for "Peacekeeper," that is hardly among his finest songs. I like the lyrics, but the melody is very uninventive (since it basically steals "Kodachrome" note-for-note) and the production is very sterile and tinny sounding. Pretty much the only thing this song has going for it is the fact that it is the closest we get to a Stevie-Lindsey duet on the entire album.

[Musicman408]

For me personally, it is really hard to say anything too negative about Say You Will- though it wasn't a spectacular seller. It was the album that got me into Fleetwood mac, so it's hard for me to knock it.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I recall wrinkling my nose a bit when I first saw the track listing for SYW. Where was "Down on Rodeo?" "She Smiled Sweetly?" "The Right Time to Fade?" "I Am Waiting?" "Gift of Screws?" Instead SYW ended up with the most uncatchy, self-indulgent stuff Lindsey's aborted solo album: "Red Rover," "Come," "Murrow," etc., which don't even feature Stevie on vocals! Don't get me wrong; in the right context (i.e., solo) those are pretty amazing songs. But I think they were too morose, dark and oblique for a group effort. I can imagine that many FM fans balked at the amount of CD real estate being devoted to these decidedly inaccessible songs. I think "Down on Rodeo" could have been an amazing Fleetwood Mac song, perhaps the defining moment of the whole album.

As for "Peacekeeper," that is hardly among his finest songs. I like the lyrics, but the melody is very uninventive (since it basically steals "Kodachrome" note-for-note) and the production is very sterile and tinny sounding. Pretty much the only thing this song has going for it is the fact that it is the closest we get to a Stevie-Lindsey duet on the entire album.

Yes. Yes. Yes. As I was reading through this thread now, I was waiting for someone to point out SYW could have been much stronger with these Lindsey contributions, Especially "Down on Rodeo". When I heard the leaked Gift Of Screws ions ago, I was salivating imagining these songs reworked a bit on the new FM record, I could practically taste Stevie's harmonies added to DOR and SSS. And "The Right Time To Fade"/Twist Of Fate"-(my preferred title and possible great album title) could have been the new "Second Hand News" meets "The Ledge" on steroids. I also loved the RS covers. It would have been interesting to include Gotta Get Away or The Singer Not The Song somewhere if only on the bonus disc.

Though back to the original question at hand - to say SYW was a bomb is too crude. It's deeper than that, not necessarily that black or white. They (esp. Lindsey & Mick) had bombastic intentions going in and wanted to shake up the FM dynamic a bit. So with that in mind they succeeded somewhat. But I would add in hindsight we all wished for a big FM revival on the charts and radio, which just wasn't in the cards. Not everything aligned, there was too much disharmony. Upon release, you could see the tension between Stevie and Lindsey. Stevie was NOT at all happy with the total package and it showed up in her performances and initial interviews which seemed oddly subdued. And I think she was on to something. Some of the song selections were questionable. And there is almost unanimous agreement that the 1st single was off and that the sequencing sucked! AND whoever said Say Goodbye was too sped up....AMEN!! It's so jarring it ruins the song, which should have been lilting and lovely as it was on stage which allowed the song to breathe and Stevie's harmony to soar. As a minimum I would have definitely swapped out WTWCT & Come with DOR & Twist of Fate and resequenced the whole record. Beyond that requires a major overhaul too daunting to attempt, you might as well start from scratch.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by BaronVonBielski

I am not a big Eagles fan, but a fan of a lot of their songs. I can't believe Long Road Out of Eden sold as well as it did. It is pretty much pure Adult Contemporary drivel... two discs worth. No edge at all.

Two discs? Try their entire catalogue...Adult Contemporary/Country-Rock drivel. The latest album is no different than what they've always done. You can equally distribute this new album as bonus tracks among their pre-1979 albums and you'd have difficulty telling that they were "new" songs. They were playing "How Long" (written by JD Souther) in their concert sets as early as 1972.

[ryan4136]

I am not going to complain about getting 18 songs, I know most of us were grateful.

With that being said when talking about SYW being a flop, I think a huge mistake was made in the length of this album. (from a sales standpoint)

It has a longer running time than tusk, yet is trying to pass itself off as a single album. The album is confused as to what it wants to be. A 2 disc album with radio and exploratory songs, or a solo comeback album. Trying to somehow pretend it's a compromise was a big mistake. With only 2 song writers this album should've been capped at 12 songs tops!!! Or give it's due expanded to 22-24 songs and go for the creative angle with a double album.

I know it's been talked about before but not having Christine loses the middle ground to really balance the album out. I close my eyes and wish we could've gotten Christine to put up 4 from In the meantime, with 4 from LB, and 4 from SN for you say you will. Then a year later release another album of 4, 4, 4, that would've put them back on the map musically in the way they were hoping.........but alas we are left with a too long 2/3 effort for sales.

But again thanks for the 18 tracks as a fan...love it.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by ryan4136

I am not going to complain about getting 18 songs, I know most of us were grateful.

With that being said when talking about SYW being a flop, I think a huge mistake was made in the length of this album. (from a sales standpoint)

It has a longer running time than tusk, yet is trying to pass itself off as a single album. The album is confused as to what it wants to be. A 2 disc album with radio and exploratory songs, or a solo comeback album. Trying to somehow pretend it's a compromise was a big mistake. With only 2 song writers this album should've been capped at 12 songs tops!!! Or give it's due expanded to 22-24 songs and go for the creative angle with a double album.

I know it's been talked about before but not having Christine loses the middle ground to really balance the album out. I close my eyes and wish we could've gotten Christine to put up 4 from In the meantime, with 4 from LB, and 4 from SN for you say you will. Then a year later release another album of 4, 4, 4, that would've put them back on the map musically in the way they were hoping.........but alas we are left with a too long 2/3 effort for sales.

But again thanks for the 18 tracks as a fan...love it.

Yes to most/all of this--especially the bit I bolded.

The Mac mode is complex, but it's key is forced selection, by which the most excellent tracks should rise to the top while also those which permit a cohesive vision. That can be accomplished the Rumours way or the Tusk way, but SYW was something different.

[DallasDude]

I wouldn't label it a bomb, but rather a major disappointment. But then again I think the absence of Christine probably accounted for a loss of 300-500K in CD sales. Every article and review mentioned she wasn't on the record and that her voice was missed.

I personally don't think the woman should be made to tour, but they should strongly encourage her to continue in the studio with the band, even if just to add keyboards and harmonies. If she did contribute a few songs, they don't HAVE to release them as singles. Then there would be no pressure to HAVE to perform her songs in concert. But for the overall CD sound, her voice would complete the FM sound, and I bet CD sales would once again top 1 million.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by DallasDude

I personally don't think the woman should be made to tour, but they should strongly encourage her to continue in the studio with the band, even if just to add keyboards and harmonies. If she did contribute a few songs, they don't HAVE to release them as singles. Then there would be no pressure to HAVE to perform her songs in concert. But for the overall CD sound, her voice would complete the FM sound, and I bet CD sales would once again top 1 million.

I agree, with at least getting her to record with them.
But as far as live, they might as well release her songs as singles, because, let's face it, she had the majority of hits, and they're ALREADY missing those, in concert.

[BaronVonBielski]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Except for maybe Show You How, which I think is almost matched in quality by Miranda, I can't think of any UTS songs that were better than his SYW selections. I didn't need SYW to include songs we'd seen before, like BTLH and SYHA, but I think for the most part he offered what he considered to be his best stuff.

I like UTS a lot, especially the title track... but I get your point. That album didn't really contain songs that would work as FM. Although Flying Down Juniper is one of the best songs he has ever done. There is something special about it.

[chiliD]

Here's "MY" Say You Will (for now, anyway):

Say You Will
Bleed To Love Her
Thrown Down (wall of sound version)
Try For The Sun
Destiny Rules
What's The World Coming To?
Illume
Murrow Turning Over In His Grave
Peacekeeper
Everybody Finds Out
Miranda
Smile At You
Steal Your Heart Away
Not Make Believe
Down On Rodeo
Goodbye Baby

[Fannymac]

Was it a bomb? Compared to THE DANCE, yes. Compared to TIME, absolutely not!
I think Warner's dropped the ball WAY early in the game.....I NEVER got the feeling that they believed in this project. I also think the single selection was weak.....both "Peacekeeper" and "Say You Will" were OK at best. "Thrown Down" should have been the first single, followed by either "What's The World Coming To" or "Steal Your Heart Away", then "Everybody Finds Out" and "Murrow Turning Over In His Grave."
The real question now, though, is this the album that Fleetwood Mac wants to end their run with? I kind of doubt it, which leads me to believe that there WILL be another album SOME day.

[ryan4136]

I actually have my doubts about another album for the band. They don't want to have a record sell less than the last one, I think there is some major fear in them, in regards to thier rep. I see more touring with songs from solo albums, rather than another album, after all SYW wasn't much more than two solo albums smushed togther anyway.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

The Eagles are viewed as American as Apple Pie. So is Wal Mart. Fleetwood Mac is not now, nor has ever been, viewed as American or patriotic. The Eagles had such a giant success because they were both of those things, and to boot they have a country flair to their sound.

The Eagles are patriotic? Don Henley is a raging liberal. Not sure about the rest of the band. My parents are HUGE Eagles fans so I listened to them a lot growing up and heard a lot of stories about the band members, etc. My own impression of them was more of a So. Cal country-rock, stoner, "peaceful easy feeling" hippy type of band, albeit with a countryesque edge, and a bit of hard living mixed in (Life in the Fast Lane is supposed to be about Stevie and Lindsey but it could also apply, loosely translated, to the band who wrote it). When I think of the phrase "American as apple pie" The Eagles do not come to mind.

[Silver Springs]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

The Eagles are patriotic? Don Henley is a raging liberal.

I think the term patriotic has become a dirty word, most obviously here in the UK. Because when we think Patriotic, we're fed with images of loudmouth louts being offensive, violent and rude against anything they deem as different. Obama's campaign didn't help as YouTube (for example) was flooded with videos of so called Patriots demonstrating their narrow minded opinions during street interviews and rallies. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with loving where you come from. But alot of people tend to use the Umbrella term as an excuse to be ignorant.

[Jeff_TM]

I like the Extended Say you Will album
I would have put Down on Rodeo, and Not Make Believe Now,I am waiting (version with Stevie's Backing as seen in Destiny Rules). Taking out, and not to hurt anyones feelings, Miranda, Come, Red Rover (should of been on UTS or GoS,imo).

I feel harsh but the songs mentioned could have been on UTS or GoS, but that is just me,