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  #31  
Old 11-30-2020, 09:20 PM
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When I was very young and first heard TUSK (the single) I was confused and completely enthralled. THIS was the same band that made the previous album I’d heard 3000 times before the age of eight? I loved the drums, the horns, the video...

When I was still young and first played through the TUSK album, I was confused, somewhat deflated, yet oddly intrigued. Very few things struck me as perfectly realized moments of pop but many, many fragments and moments were quite stunning. I quickly realized that was the point—fragmentation and excess were the aesthetic principles of the record. And when I mean excess, it’s as much about the exceeding spareness in Christine and Stevie’s songs as it is about Lindsey’s frenzied experiments. For a band that claimed “less is more” as a motto, they outdid themselves here. “Storms,” “Angel,” “Never Make Me Cry,” “Over and Over” and “Sisters” are treated with deliberate simplification. Only “Sara,” “Brown Eyes,” “ That’s All” and “Beautiful Child” embrace full-scale orchestration—and in those cases it seems as if this is to prove a point: we CAN do it, but we choose not to most of the time.

Case in point: One can’t help but think “What would ‘Never Forget’ sound like if it were arranged and recorded in the manner of “Don’t Stop” or “YMLF?” It has all the trappings of a hit but is stripped of all that “cream on top” (Mick’s phrase) that carried a good song into the top ten. The decision to record crude and/or bare arrangements of these songs with such precision is one of TUSK’s primary head scratchers. It’s an experiment that initially seemed to fail but over time reveals itself as evidence of Lindsey’s genius. One of the reasons TUSK ages so well is because the songs do not succumb to stock-in-trade treatments that would render the songs bland decades later. Instead, we get these well-crafted folk-rock songs immortalized through eerie reverb and aggressive spareness. It’s the aural equivalent of certain scenes from Kubrick’s “2001.”

Last edited by aleuzzi; 11-30-2020 at 09:23 PM..
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  #32  
Old 11-30-2020, 10:53 PM
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The decision to record crude and/or bare arrangements of these songs with such precision is one of TUSKís primary head scratchers. Itís an experiment that initially seemed to fail but over time reveals itself as evidence of Lindseyís genius. One of the reasons TUSK ages so well is because the songs do not succumb to stock-in-trade treatments that would render the songs bland decades later. Instead, we get these well-crafted folk-rock songs immortalized through eerie reverb and aggressive spareness. Itís the aural equivalent of certain scenes from Kubrickís ď2001.Ē
So you're referring to Tango, with the stock in trade, dated treatments?
Because to me, that's what it is. They no longer sounded like a band...
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  #33  
Old 11-30-2020, 10:55 PM
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So you're referring to Tango, with the stock in trade, dated treatments?
Because to me, that's what it is. They no longer sounded like a band...
Actually, yes. TANGO sounds far more dated today than TUSK.
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  #34  
Old 12-01-2020, 06:21 AM
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if there was no Tusk, all their albums would just be trying to be commerciality-attempting replicas of Rumours.

as far as songs go, i adore Think About Me but all other Chris songs are too slow for me. i adore alternate version of SOTM, and am ok with album versions of BC and Storms but adore live versions from BN FM. i could never stand Sara, such a dirge. Lindsey songs are a great solo album on their own and i used to listen to just them. i adore WMYTYTO and WATL, and Tusk is my Gen Z daughter's favorite Mac song. i've never been at FM or LB show where Tusk was not a huge crowd pleaser. guess everyone knows it from football games. short punkish NTF on OWTS tour was fantastic. TAFE has been revered by newer artists as huge influence but i just don't care for it.
Which is exactly what happened post Tusk (seeking commercial success ahead of the integrity of the music). I like Mirage but even Christine commented how it was not daring at all. Its very safe and very light pop purposely made commercial music because of the backlash to Tusk. After a half decade apart and Mick's bankruptcy, Tango was even less daring than Mirage and most songs did not even sound like Fleetwood Mac. Its sad that we never got another Mac album with these 5 members free of pressure to make the music they want to make. Tusk made the band lose their rock chops. Classic rock stations only play songs from the White Album and Rumours.
There was no way to duplicate the success of Rumours so it would be silly to try. The Eagles are a great example. Hotel California and Rumours were released not far apart. They both were hugely successful selling similar amount of copies and Grammy nominated with multiple hit singles. The Eagles too were under pressure to make Hotel California 2. Their 1979 release The Long Run vs Mac's Tusk took different approaches. The Eagles were attacked for being blase. Disco was dominating the charts and Henley stated the title track was about the long run to see who would really survive and keeping their band together. The Long Run kept a similar formula from Hotel California and The Long Run debuted at #2 the first week and then went to #1 for 9 weeks with the same amount of hit singles. Oddly enough "In the City" was not officially released as a single but was played so much it literally was the 4th hit single from the album. The album sold 9 million copies which was huge but still half of Hotel California. There was a little rebellion in the album (not as much as Tusk of course) in taking swipes at the current disco trends in music in adding songs "The Disco Strangler" and "Those Shoes." The Long Run was actually supposed to be a double album but Henley stated they discovered they did not have enough good material to put out so curtailed that idea while in the studio.
Fleetwood Mac completely changed their sound. I am not sure how one can best describe the sound of Tusk. Everyone would have a different description. Its lots of folk music sounding IMHO. Many of the songs with drums have very awkward and soft beats that are interesting to say the least. I would love a Sisters on the album like its done live and the same with I know I'm not wrong.

The idea of this thread is "what if" And its an interesting question. The Eagles still put out a hugely successful album that few bothered to compare to Hotel California. I still think the Mac could have put out a similar type of album. But Lindsey was being very rebellious and I love Tusk for the music it is. I just hate the fact how the album led to them chasing commercial success more than ever and putting out bubble gum pop. Tusk created the monster that Lindsey tried to kill. When Gold Dust Woman and Storms were recorded, the band was not focusing on "will this get played on the radio?" Will it be a hit single? You cant say the same for Seven Wonders
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 12-01-2020 at 07:49 AM..
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  #35  
Old 12-01-2020, 11:48 AM
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Which is exactly what happened post Tusk (seeking commercial success ahead of the integrity of the music). I like Mirage but even Christine commented how it was not daring at all. Its very safe and very light pop purposely made commercial music because of the backlash to Tusk. After a half decade apart and Mick's bankruptcy, Tango was even less daring than Mirage and most songs did not even sound like Fleetwood Mac. Its sad that we never got another Mac album with these 5 members free of pressure to make the music they want to make. Tusk made the band lose their rock chops. Classic rock stations only play songs from the White Album and Rumours.
There was no way to duplicate the success of Rumours so it would be silly to try. The Eagles are a great example. Hotel California and Rumours were released not far apart. They both were hugely successful selling similar amount of copies and Grammy nominated with multiple hit singles. The Eagles too were under pressure to make Hotel California 2. Their 1979 release The Long Run vs Mac's Tusk took different approaches. The Eagles were attacked for being blase. Disco was dominating the charts and Henley stated the title track was about the long run to see who would really survive and keeping their band together. The Long Run kept a similar formula from Hotel California and The Long Run debuted at #2 the first week and then went to #1 for 9 weeks with the same amount of hit singles. Oddly enough "In the City" was not officially released as a single but was played so much it literally was the 4th hit single from the album. The album sold 9 million copies which was huge but still half of Hotel California. There was a little rebellion in the album (not as much as Tusk of course) in taking swipes at the current disco trends in music in adding songs "The Disco Strangler" and "Those Shoes." The Long Run was actually supposed to be a double album but Henley stated they discovered they did not have enough good material to put out so curtailed that idea while in the studio.
Fleetwood Mac completely changed their sound. I am not sure how one can best describe the sound of Tusk. Everyone would have a different description. Its lots of folk music sounding IMHO. Many of the songs with drums have very awkward and soft beats that are interesting to say the least. I would love a Sisters on the album like its done live and the same with I know I'm not wrong.

The idea of this thread is "what if" And its an interesting question. The Eagles still put out a hugely successful album that few bothered to compare to Hotel California. I still think the Mac could have put out a similar type of album. But Lindsey was being very rebellious and I love Tusk for the music it is. I just hate the fact how the album led to them chasing commercial success more than ever and putting out bubble gum pop. Tusk created the monster that Lindsey tried to kill. When Gold Dust Woman and Storms were recorded, the band was not focusing on "will this get played on the radio?" Will it be a hit single? You cant say the same for Seven Wonders
Excellent comparison of my two favorite bands!
I doubt The Long Run could have ever been a double album. On History of the Eagles, Bill Szymczyk(their producer) says they all showed up to record TLR, without a single finished song to record. And from the studio footage I've seen, they were pretty much coked out of their minds. And they were dicks. Dicks who couldn't stand each other any longer. It was no surprise when they broke up shortly thereafter.
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  #36  
Old 12-01-2020, 12:32 PM
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Excellent comparison of my two favorite bands!
I doubt The Long Run could have ever been a double album. On History of the Eagles, Bill Szymczyk(their producer) says they all showed up to record TLR, without a single finished song to record. And from the studio footage I've seen, they were pretty much coked out of their minds. And they were dicks. Dicks who couldn't stand each other any longer. It was no surprise when they broke up shortly thereafter.
Yes there was tons of Eagles drama but my point remains. Its a valid comparison of both bands Rumours vs Hotel California and Tusk vs The Long Run

The Long Run was originally slated to be a double album. Who knows, maybe when they heard the Mac was doing one they wanted to copy. Henley did an interview in the mid 80s with Musician magazine where he raved about Lindsey and even had him play on his 1984 solo album. He spoke about Lindsey during Tusk working in his bathroom playing on kleenex boxes. As much as he admired the creativity, its something that Henley would not want to do to his sound. This was also the interview where he said there was talk of members of the Mac and Eagles forming a band of their own.

My point being is the Eagles had no problems or issues using their same winning formula for the follow up to their huge Hotel California even though they were under the same pressure. No one said the Long Run sucked or was Hotel California 2.
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  #37  
Old 12-01-2020, 12:53 PM
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Yes there was tons of Eagles drama but my point remains. Its a valid comparison of both bands Rumours vs Hotel California and Tusk vs The Long Run

The Long Run was originally slated to be a double album. Who knows, maybe when they heard the Mac was doing one they wanted to copy. Henley did an interview in the mid 80s with Musician magazine where he raved about Lindsey and even had him play on his 1984 solo album. He spoke about Lindsey during Tusk working in his bathroom playing on kleenex boxes. As much as he admired the creativity, its something that Henley would not want to do to his sound. This was also the interview where he said there was talk of members of the Mac and Eagles forming a band of their own.

My point being is the Eagles had no problems or issues using their same winning formula for the follow up to their huge Hotel California even though they were under the same pressure. No one said the Long Run sucked or was Hotel California 2.
Not arguing the point.

The Eagles were always more about sales, and being somewhat "corporate rock" than FM. On FM's part, thanks to ONE person, Lindsey.
"Perfection wasn't an accident" - Glenn Frey.
If memory serves, Lindsey's song on Don's album was, "You Can't Make Love". Yes, the disc is in the next room, but I'd have to get up and go look! It sounds like Lindsey's guitar playing, but I never could really hear his voice on it.

Ever since $tevie got Lindsey fired, I've been much more into the Eagles. I'm absolutely obsessed with History of the Eagles. I've watched the entire thing probably close to 100 times. And the weird thing is that I think both Henley and Frey are COMPLETE DICKS. Horrible, selfish people. Yet I'm inexplicably drawn!
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  #38  
Old 12-01-2020, 02:33 PM
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Not arguing the point.

The Eagles were always more about sales, and being somewhat "corporate rock" than FM. On FM's part, thanks to ONE person, Lindsey.
"Perfection wasn't an accident" - Glenn Frey.
If memory serves, Lindsey's song on Don's album was, "You Can't Make Love". Yes, the disc is in the next room, but I'd have to get up and go look! It sounds like Lindsey's guitar playing, but I never could really hear his voice on it.

Ever since $tevie got Lindsey fired, I've been much more into the Eagles. I'm absolutely obsessed with History of the Eagles. I've watched the entire thing probably close to 100 times. And the weird thing is that I think both Henley and Frey are COMPLETE DICKS. Horrible, selfish people. Yet I'm inexplicably drawn!
I agree that Henley and Frey were ruthless tyrant S.O.B.s
Henley has a soft spot in my heart when he hung up the phone on Stevie when she told him she was marrying her best friend's husband.
However without a doubt, Henley, Felder, and Frey were perfectionists with huge egos.
The writing between Henley and Frey is incredible yet still so underrated.
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  #39  
Old 12-01-2020, 02:56 PM
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I agree that Henley and Frey were ruthless tyrant S.O.B.s
Henley has a soft spot in my heart when he hung up the phone on Stevie when she told him she was marrying her best friend's husband.
However without a doubt, Henley, Felder, and Frey were perfectionists with huge egos.
The writing between Henley and Frey is incredible yet still so underrated.
I think that everyone that ever left the band, left because of Glenn. I think he was horrible, selfish person. I mean, I'm sure they wouldn't have had the success they had without him, but watching behind the scenes footage, I think he was a first class PRICK(even though he mellowed in later years - just like Lindsey). It was HIS way or the highway. I also think he was INCREDIBLY JEALOUS when Don became "the voice" of the Eagles. "It's MY BAND, you dick!!!"

I saw Henley solo several times back in the day. I never saw Glenn solo. What does that tell you?
Henley's like Christine. I could listen to him sing the phone book.
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  #40  
Old 12-02-2020, 01:53 AM
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Releasing Tusk as the first single was another error. Linds and his ego ruined the album and its chances of great success. So if we are to deconstruct Tusk, removing his songs is the first step.
It's cute how you don't know the record company picks the single. Go twirl around your apartment now.
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Old 12-02-2020, 02:04 AM
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It's cute how you don't know the record company picks the single. Go twirl around your apartment now.
Now I owe you a cocktail!
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  #42  
Old 12-02-2020, 06:45 AM
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I think that everyone that ever left the band, left because of Glenn. I think he was horrible, selfish person. I mean, I'm sure they wouldn't have had the success they had without him, but watching behind the scenes footage, I think he was a first class PRICK(even though he mellowed in later years - just like Lindsey). It was HIS way or the highway. I also think he was INCREDIBLY JEALOUS when Don became "the voice" of the Eagles. "It's MY BAND, you dick!!!"

I saw Henley solo several times back in the day. I never saw Glenn solo. What does that tell you?
Henley's like Christine. I could listen to him sing the phone book.
I never cared for Glenn's solo career as much as I liked his work with the Eagles. Henley made incredible solo albums.
I take a little issue with you calling the Eagles corporate rock. The Eagles actually got panned by many people claiming their original sound would never attract a following. They were not enough country or not enough rock or they were too folksy. Remember the term California rock in the 70's? They almost had their own category of music. They also did not follow traditional methods. No one thought Hotel California could ever be a single because the intro was too long. Yet they did it anyway. No one thought New Kid in Town could be a single because it was too damn long. Yet they made it happen. IMHO the Henley/Frey team is just as good as Lennon/McCartney. The story behind Desperado is quite amazing how Glenn kept pushing to make it happen. Just because the Eagles were successful at their craft does not make them corporate sell outs IMHO.
The addition of Joe Walsh was icing on the cake. Not only did they rock more but the dynamic of him playing with Felder was out of this world.
I will even say The Long Run is a better album than Hotel California. Or its just as good. Its an entire package just like a Rumours album. Its impossible to just take one song off that album. Its a cohesive masterpiece.
I love the story of the early days when Glenn Frey and Bob Segar were in a bar listening to a rock band. Glenn was so blown away with the band and told Bob he expected they would make it big. Bob told Glenn they would never make it. When Glenn asked why, Bob explained it was because they had no original songs. You cant play other people's music and must write your own songs. Glenn said "But we write such crappy songs" Bob said of course but you keep writing and they will get better.
I love that story because it shows how talent is sometimes hidden and you never know how good you are at something unless you keep doing it over and over.

About cocaine. I heard Don Henley say once that they really thought cocaine was a magic drug because when they got into it their careers took off and it made them more creative. But they soon realized that was a short term thing. They are one of the few bands who drugs did not break up the band. They all sort of got off drugs on their own without letting it affect their performances which is pretty rare for the 1970s and 1980s.
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  #43  
Old 12-02-2020, 09:41 AM
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It's cute how you don't know the record company picks the single. Go twirl around your apartment now.
It was a big mistake, regardless.
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:52 PM
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It was a big mistake, regardless.
Mitzo, what would Tusk be without the song ďTuskĒ? A ship without a rudder, a library without a shelving system, a Fellini Blu-ray set without a bullhorn and a prancing horse. It just wouldnít work.
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