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  #16  
Old 01-24-2023, 06:33 PM
cbBen cbBen is offline
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It makes little sense why they would not let her participate in the making of the album just because she was not prepared to tour behind it.

First, didn't they do just that for Time?

Second, if Lindsey was so keen to make Say You Will a double-CD, one would think he would see the need for all three songwriters.

Would the public have expressed more resistance to the four-piece lineup after her participation in the album than it would have had she not participated? To any meaningful extent, I don't see why that would be the case. It seems like a case of overthinking the situation. Just make the best album you can, and then subsequently make the best live show you can. The Tango tour proved you could successfully tour an album without the songs of one of the three songwriters.

If Lindsey thought it such a blessing to have Christine contributing songs to what became Buckingham McVie (and to our knowledge she hadn't committed to touring behind the album first, nor did he seem to be of a the view that Stevie would not be contributing to the album), one would think he would have felt the same about Say You Will.

It seems convoluted to say, "If you won't tour behind it, we don't want you contributing songs to it." I mean does Lindsey think that, given his failure to tour behind it, the band was retrospectively ill-served by his having contributed songs to Tango (production aside, as plenty of producers don't tour with the band after making an album with them)?

Last edited by cbBen; 01-24-2023 at 06:39 PM..
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  #17  
Old 01-24-2023, 10:23 PM
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Another interview from last year... less than a year ago (March 2022)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLuVfADXY_E

(it's a radio interview so it's really just audio)
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  #18  
Old 01-24-2023, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
It makes little sense why they would not let her participate in the making of the album just because she was not prepared to tour behind it.

.....
It seems convoluted to say, "If you won't tour behind it, we don't want you contributing songs to it."
in one of John's Q&As here he also said the same thing...something like how it didn't really see the point in Chris being involved if she couldn't promote the project.

But then in another question, which to me is like a complete turnaround, he said how he thought there was good stuff on Chris's In the Meantime album, but how he thought he and Lindsey and Mick might have helped out on it a bit. Basically saying 'the music would ave been better had we all worked on it together.'

so part of him wanted to work on her music, while the other part didn't see the point if she wasn't gonna tour? I don't really get it.

i think the last line of his final Q&a answer was actually 'Chris will not tour.' maybe at that point they all felt they had pushed her as much as they could, but that she had just checked out and they had to suck it up and move on..?

--Lis
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  #19  
Old 01-24-2023, 10:37 PM
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I always felt Christine should have recorded with them for SYW. It could have been a true double album and then just tour with out her. The best of both album would have been stellar. We also would have had Lindsey’s magic on Christine new ITM songs.
Or better yet, keep 4 of Lindsey’s songs, 4 of Stevies’s, and then add 4 of Christine’s, and then the album would have truly been stellar.
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  #20  
Old 01-24-2023, 10:59 PM
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in one of John's Q&As here he also said the same thing...something like how it didn't really see the point in Chris being involved if she couldn't promote the project.
I also remember him saying something like it would have been sad if she’d been involved if her heart wasn’t fully into it.

Quote:
But then in another question, which to me is like a complete turnaround, he said how he thought there was good stuff on Chris's In the Meantime album, but how he thought he and Lindsey and Mick might have helped out on it a bit. Basically saying 'the music would ave been better had we all worked on it together.'

so part of him wanted to work on her music, while the other part didn't see the point if she wasn't gonna tour? I don't really get it.
I think it’s him kind of saying the same thing she was talking about in the second half of the ITM interview. He was missing her as much as she was missing him and Mick.

I agree that she shouldn’t have been a member of the band on SYW if she wasn’t going to tour. They needed to be able to function as an entity in full, and she wasn’t able or willing to at that point. However, I think there was room for compromise. She should have played keyboards and contributed harmony vocals and they should have been her backing band on her “solo” album.
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Last edited by SteveMacD; 01-24-2023 at 11:21 PM..
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  #21  
Old 01-24-2023, 11:17 PM
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First, didn't they do just that for Time?
Technically, no. The only shows the band played after Time was released were a couple of corporate gigs. All of their touring had been prior to the album’s release.

That said, it would still be hard to equate the two situations. Christine was the only Rumours era singer/songwriter on Time and the only one not on SYW. Without Christine, Time wouldn’t have much continuity beyond Billy’s limited involvement.

And, it was a bit confusing for them to have to explain that she was still recording with them, but not touring, making the inevitable Brian Wilson comparison.

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Second, if Lindsey was so keen to make Say You Will a double-CD, one would think he would see the need for all three songwriters.
Please, he wouldn’t have even needed Stevie for that.

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Would the public have expressed more resistance to the four-piece lineup after her participation in the album than it would have had she not participated?
No, but the promoters would have. It would have been harder than not.

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The Tango tour proved you could successfully tour an album without the songs of one of the three songwriters.
Christine not touring wasn’t going to be a one tour thing, though. Furthermore, given that Lindsey quitting and opening night were only 55 days apart, there was a little added drama to the TITN tour.

Fleetwood Mac was committed to going on as a recording and touring entity when they went into SYW. It was about going forward. In that sense, having someone who was only going to be on the albums but not the tours wasn’t practical. It would have only kicked the can down the road to 2009, when they weren’t a recording entity anymore.
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  #22  
Old 01-25-2023, 06:40 AM
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I hadn’t realized how similar these events were until this thread:

- Lindsey recorded Tango in the Night but refused to tour.
- Christine wanted to record on Say You Will but not tour.
- Stevie wanted to tour but refused to record what became Buckingham/McVie.

I love that Lindsey refused to let Christine do what he did in 1987! I wish the band had let her record on Say You Will, it was such a wasted opportunity. A clear case of majority rules, just like the decision to fire Lindsey.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2023, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
It makes little sense why they would not let her participate in the making of the album just because she was not prepared to tour behind it.

First, didn't they do just that for Time?

Second, if Lindsey was so keen to make Say You Will a double-CD, one would think he would see the need for all three songwriters.

Would the public have expressed more resistance to the four-piece lineup after her participation in the album than it would have had she not participated? To any meaningful extent, I don't see why that would be the case. It seems like a case of overthinking the situation. Just make the best album you can, and then subsequently make the best live show you can. The Tango tour proved you could successfully tour an album without the songs of one of the three songwriters.

If Lindsey thought it such a blessing to have Christine contributing songs to what became Buckingham McVie (and to our knowledge she hadn't committed to touring behind the album first, nor did he seem to be of a the view that Stevie would not be contributing to the album), one would think he would have felt the same about Say You Will.

It seems convoluted to say, "If you won't tour behind it, we don't want you contributing songs to it." I mean does Lindsey think that, given his failure to tour behind it, the band was retrospectively ill-served by his having contributed songs to Tango (production aside, as plenty of producers don't tour with the band after making an album with them)?
Chris did not want to do Time. However the record company would not even let the album take place without Christine. They sort of knew the world was not going to flock to Fleetwood Mac without Chris, Stevie, and Lindsey singing something. Being the trooper that Chris was, she agreed to do it with the band so Mick and the band could get their album. She was never going to tour and did much of the album long distance and not in the studio with them. Nights In Estoril actually featured a studio musician which explains why that song rocks.

This is from Mick's book:
Christine McVie did not originally intend to participate on the album (she had technically quit in 1990) but that Warner Bros. had insisted she appear. As such, her five featured songs were recorded separately from the full band and all guitar parts on these were played by session musician Michael Thompson, although Billy Burnette is featured on the album's only single, "I Do", which only charted in Canada.[4] "Hollywood" alludes to the homesickness that would cause her to retire temporarily from the band, while "Nights in Estoril" celebrated time spent at Estoril in Portugal with her then-husband Eddy Quintela, who was Portuguese himself.
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 01-25-2023 at 08:14 AM..
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2023, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
This is from Mick's book:
Christine McVie did not originally intend to participate on the album (she had technically quit in 1990) but that Warner Bros. had insisted she appear…

although Billy Burnette is featured on the album's only single, "I Do"
This is a bit revisionist. Even after the BTM tour, Christine was always going to be their Brian Wilson. She talked in the 1993 press conference about them going into the studio in April to begin a new album (them at the time being Mick, John, Christine, and Billy), so she was under contract before Bekka and Mason were added. At some point in April, Billy left, so “I Do” was likely from those sessions. From April to October, Fleetwood Mac didn’t have a guitarist, which is why/when I suspect Michael Thompson did the guitar parts.

However, almost every interview they did for the 94-95 tours talked about how she was still in the band. Billy even said in his recent interview that he and Bekka had to have Christine and Dave give the green light for “Dreamin’ the Dream,” and that was the last song written for the album.

I think she worked on the Bramlett stuff and maybe the original version of “Blow By Blow,” but she and Mason didn’t get on and she stopped working with them.

Which makes me wonder if Richard left Time to go make Smile with Lindsey and his band in Hawaii after he realized he couldn’t work with Mason. I also wonder if he was fired by the label when that album was rejected so that they could stick Rob Cavallo on Lindsey.
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2023, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
This is a bit revisionist. Even after the BTM tour, Christine was always going to be their Brian Wilson. She talked in the 1993 press conference about them going into the studio in April to begin a new album (them at the time being Mick, John, Christine, and Billy), so she was under contract before Bekka and Mason were added. At some point in April, Billy left, so “I Do” was likely from those sessions. From April to October, Fleetwood Mac didn’t have a guitarist, which is why/when I suspect Michael Thompson did the guitar parts.

However, almost every interview they did for the 94-95 tours talked about how she was still in the band. Billy even said in his recent interview that he and Bekka had to have Christine and Dave give the green light for “Dreamin’ the Dream,” and that was the last song written for the album.

I think she worked on the Bramlett stuff and maybe the original version of “Blow By Blow,” but she and Mason didn’t get on and she stopped working with them.

Which makes me wonder if Richard left Time to go make Smile with Lindsey and his band in Hawaii after he realized he couldn’t work with Mason. I also wonder if he was fired by the label when that album was rejected so that they could stick Rob Cavallo on Lindsey.
Of course they were still talking she was in the band in 1994. They needed her for the record deal.
You are taking quotes or statements said in casual terms as a precursor to the future. You dont get they were always talking in positive terms about the band? Why is this so hard to believe? Is the studio guitarist lying what happened during Time? Is Mick lying what actually happened during Time? Is Wikipedia wrong about the album?
History is cemented in time (pardon the pun). Its recorded. There is no disputing that. You are taking statements before Time was recorded and using them to say what happened during or after Time when it did not happen yet.
In theory yes, Chris was still with the band in 1994. She wanted out and was pressed to record the album. Both statements can be true at the same time. The statements from band members from 1990 to 1995 were all over the place. Who was in who was out? Is someone going to tour or not? Who is doing a solo album? etc etc. Many of those statements were not true at the time or were wrong with what was going to happen. For example, its factual history Chris did her recording for Time away from the band. If she was all in with the band as you allege, then why was it done this way? Chris is so loyal to Mick. She has always done everything he asks her to do including Time. The only times she said no was touring with the band during Time and anything beyond the US Leg of the Dance tour. Nothing is revisionist. Its what actually happened.
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Last edited by Macfan4life; 01-25-2023 at 09:25 AM..
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  #26  
Old 01-25-2023, 09:57 AM
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You are taking quotes or statements said in casual terms as a precursor to the future.
Just let look at what happened.

She said in late January, 1993 that they were going into the studio to start an album with the band in April, just over two months away. That’s hardly casual terms.

Billy left in April.

The only song of Christine’s he appears on is “I Do.” The rest of the guitars were with a studio musician.

Fleetwood Mac didn’t have a guitarist until October.

Deduction: Christine’s songs on Time were her studio demos, the ones they make to work out the arrangements and harmonies. They weren’t recorded “away from the band,” the band didn’t have a guitarist when they were recorded. Instead of rerecording with the others, she likely just redid the vocals and overdubbed additional keyboards, percussion, and vocals to the demos.

After they were added, but before Billy rejoined, Christine did an interview with them, with a photo of the five of them where she and Bekka were wearing beards. There was also a picture of the five of them playing. So, no, I don’t think they were all talk when then talked about her being their Brian Wilson.

That doesn’t mean she didn’t leave at some point, because a version of the album without her was submitted and rejected, but it’s revisionist to say she never intended to make that album.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:49 AM
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Just let look at what happened.

She said in late January, 1993 that they were going into the studio to start an album with the band in April, just over two months away. That’s hardly casual terms.

Billy left in April.

The only song of Christine’s he appears on is “I Do.” The rest of the guitars were with a studio musician.

Fleetwood Mac didn’t have a guitarist until October.

Deduction: Christine’s songs on Time were her studio demos, the ones they make to work out the arrangements and harmonies. They weren’t recorded “away from the band,” the band didn’t have a guitarist when they were recorded. Instead of rerecording with the others, she likely just redid the vocals and overdubbed additional keyboards, percussion, and vocals to the demos.

After they were added, but before Billy rejoined, Christine did an interview with them, with a photo of the five of them where she and Bekka were wearing beards. There was also a picture of the five of them playing. So, no, I don’t think they were all talk when then talked about her being their Brian Wilson.

That doesn’t mean she didn’t leave at some point, because a version of the album without her was submitted and rejected, but it’s revisionist to say she never intended to make that album.
Simple logical question then:
Why did Warner Brothers tell the band no record unless Christine is included.

If she always intended to be there they would not have given that ultimatum.
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Old 01-25-2023, 01:44 PM
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Simple logical question then:
Why did Warner Brothers tell the band no record unless Christine is included.

If she always intended to be there they would not have given that ultimatum.
By her own words, she and Mason didn’t get along, and at some point, she stopped going to sessions and left. It got to a point where she wanted nothing to do with the project. Same thing happened with Richard. As I said in my last paragraph, a version of the album without her was submitted and rejected. The label had paid for an album that featured Christine McVie.

That’s when she had to be coaxed back into adding a few finishing touches to her demos from April, 1993.
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Old 01-25-2023, 04:27 PM
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That’s when she had to be coaxed back into adding a few finishing touches to her demos from April, 1993.
Perhaps THIS is why she settles for that awful tinny piano on her tunes here. So many good songs marred by that keyboard.
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Old 01-25-2023, 04:32 PM
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Perhaps THIS is why she settles for that awful tinny piano on her tunes here. So many good songs marred by that keyboard.
Michael Thompson’s Stratty guitar tone doesn’t do much for me, either. “I Do” is my favorite song of hers on the album, perhaps because of Billy’s rhythm guitar, which worked incredibly well with their groove.
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