DR documentary makers talk S & L

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by elle

Dashut had a blog for a while, that he later deleted. then he started posting stories like this on his facebook for a while. i think he's probably not posting anything for a number of years now, i think his health was getting worse, and he was also probably getting tired of crazy online "culture."

this was a part of what he posted at the time - i think it was during 2014-15 FM tour. that was still the time when the whole FM tried to get Stevie to join them on the new album. i remember reading this and thinking - wow she really is resisting this new album and trying to blame it all on Lindsey - i mean she's tying to turn even Richard who knows better against Lindsey?!

but John McVie tidbit and him being drunk and a**hole also specifically towards Richard Dashut is interesting. from all the tidbits it very much sounds like both John McVie and Lindsey were in the category of mean drunks. Glad Lindsey doesn't drink anymore, i'm guessing John is not either.

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

My guess is Lindsey said to Stevie that she couldn't write a good song or a hit song without help from other musicians, and that she doesn't give them (him) proper songwriting credit. That's my guess for the worst thing Lindsey may've said to her. If he said it, I wouldn't agree with that.

We also see in the DR documentary that Stevie doesn't seem happy Lindsey wanted to leave the tour rehearsal at night to get home to his family; Stevie likes to work at night since she wakes up at 4:00pm. So his road practices probably got to her too.

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

There’s no question Lindsey has to be tough to work with. It’s hard enough sometimes to listen to his speeches. He has come across in interviews and in the eyes of those around him as controlling, dismissive, and impatient. However, from the very beginning, he was expected to carry a heavier load than all the rest, a thankless load producing songs that made Christine and Stevie celebrated icons. He may have always been a force of nature on stage, but he will never be a draw like the ladies. That had to fuel some resentment.

What’s more, Stevie isn’t a picnic to work with. Just ask any of her solo album producers. Once, when remembering her recording that 1978 duet with Kenny Loggins, she called him a taskmaster and spoke of him rather cooly because he had a vision for how the voices should sound on his song—on his album. She never likes being given direction or criticism.

By many accounts, Christine is a wonderful collaborator, a real team player. But both Welch and Caillat found her sarcastic and unpleasant at times.

So...I guess all of them are hard work. Some far more than others.

And before 2014, around the 2012 time frame she didn't even want to tour with them.... that's when Mick whined [to Playboy I think it was] during an interview about it and tried to basically publicly shame her about it, saying things like if FM never toured again it would be her fault etc. Lindsey put it out there in some interview he did at one point also.

I think Lindsey has said some really sh&tty, nasty things to and about Stevie that were deliberately hurtful and to cut her down in front of others. He would do the "bro" thing in the studio with male engineers and co producers and with roadies and such on the road like making mocking comments about her songs, her singing, her performances, her opinions on things, right in front of her face. He knew the things she was vulnerable about and he went there. Equally bad, he would other times he would treat her like she wasn't there, and just completely and utterly ignore anything she said. There are a few small lapses in the Tusk documentary where this happens. Often he critiqued her songs for valid reasons, but equally he was a dick about it, often just to humiliate her because he could. Not nice. When you understand that layer of their relationship, it puts the "you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" crap into more context. It was her very clearly signaling to him that she no longer cares what he thinks about her lyrics, because she has a level of success without him and can walk away. I think of that line in Planets of the Universe she wrote about him "you will never rule again/the way you have ruled". Chris wrote about his coldness and moodiness in Over My Head 'then again you can be cold as ice' 'your mood is like a circus wheel/you're changing all the time' 'every day you hurt my pride'. When he thinks he's right and you're wrong, he can treat you like total sh&t on the bottom of his shoe.

Stevie on the other hand was just sooooo full of herself and entirely self-centered. Funny how now she only barely admits to it... she said something about making Bella Donna and finally admitted how she was 'maybe just a teeny bit conceited then'.... There's the understatement of the year. She believed she was the queen of the universe, put here by god to save the world, and the more famous she got and the more drugs she did, the less focused she became on work and the more she just wanted to party and reap all the rewards of success without putting in the effort. She always felt like she could count on him to clean up her songs so all she had to do was show up and sing her bit and then go off with her entourage, exhausted from being in the army and having to show up on time. She believes she's so desirable and charming that she can get all these men to do everything for her (Lindsey, Jimmy, Tom, Mick, etc.).

They are a totally toxic mix, those two.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I think Lindsey has said some really sh&tty, nasty things to and about Stevie that were deliberately hurtful and to cut her down in front of others. He would do the "bro" thing in the studio with male engineers and co producers and with roadies and such on the road like making mocking comments about her songs, her singing, her performances, her opinions on things, right in front of her face. He knew the things she was vulnerable about and he went there. Equally bad, he would other times he would treat her like she wasn't there, and just completely and utterly ignore anything she said. There are a few small lapses in the Tusk documentary where this happens. Often he critiqued her songs for valid reasons, but equally he was a dick about it, often just to humiliate her because he could. Not nice. When you understand that layer of their relationship, it puts the "you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" crap into more context. It was her very clearly signaling to him that she no longer cares what he thinks about her lyrics, because she has a level of success without him and can walk away. I think of that line in Planets of the Universe she wrote about him "you will never rule again/the way you have ruled". Chris wrote about his coldness and moodiness in Over My Head 'then again you can be cold as ice' 'your mood is like a circus wheel/you're changing all the time' 'every day you hurt my pride'. When he thinks he's right and you're wrong, he can treat you like total sh&t on the bottom of his shoe.

Great take!!! But you forgot the forcing of the Say You Will sweater

I wish that video was still around.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I think Lindsey has said some really sh&tty, nasty things to and about Stevie that were deliberately hurtful and to cut her down in front of others. He would do the "bro" thing in the studio with male engineers and co producers and with roadies and such on the road like making mocking comments about her songs, her singing, her performances, her opinions on things, right in front of her face.

Like with “What Makes You Think You’re the One.”

They are a totally toxic mix, those two.

They would have driven McVie to be a heavy drinker if hadn’t been one already.

[HomerMcvie]

You know, if $he didn't act like a complete IDIOT, it would be much more difficult to mock her.

[SteveMacD]

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?

She knew how to get back at him with that. He also sang that Dylan tune at her Phoenix Trouble in Shangri-La show in 2001.

She could've said You wouldn't say that to Mick Jagger since they recorded I Am Waiting in 2002

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

She knew how to get back at him with that. He also sang that Dylan tune at her Phoenix Trouble in Shangri-La show in 2001.

She could've said You wouldn't say that to Mick Jagger since they recorded I Am Waiting in 2002

She was referring to "Tangled Up In Blue," which shifts person and tense in the same way Lindsey was critiquing her song.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by cbBen

She was referring to "Tangled Up In Blue," which shifts person and tense in the same way Lindsey was critiquing her song.

Thank you. That's very insightful.

It is interesting to me that she did keep third person for Moonlight (which came after Say You Will) because the original Lady from the Mountains included second person.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?

I have always assumed that was the context for her remark.

I have assumed that Stevie didn't want Lindsey's Dylan or Stones covers on the album, for whatever reason, and fair enough too.

When that exchange occured, the question of a double album and which tracks to include had not been finalized.

So it may be that her ire at the potential inclusion of a Dylan track was half of the impetus behind her remark.

Nevertheless, it is fun to ignore such context and imagine that she walks around talking of herself as lyrically on par with Dylan apropos of nothing.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?

Haha! Of all people, I would never have guessed that slipped by you.