If Lindsey could turn back time, would he have helped Stevie soo much?

[Jondalar]

If Lindsey could turn back time, would he have helped Stevie soo much? He made Stevie a star but after she got some power, she did nothing but hurt him. She used him for hit songs and then got him fired when she realized she didn't need him to make money on tours anymore.

[HomerMcvie]

As much as I'd love to say no(for me and him), the fact is -

THEY'D ALL BE NOTHING WITHOUT FLEETWOOD MAC.

Perhaps stopping after Tusk would have been an option, but their career would have severely waned without a successful Mirage and Tango. SYW sucks, so he should have stopped after Tango.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

As much as I'd love to say no(for me and him), the fact is -

THEY'D ALL BE NOTHING WITHOUT FLEETWOOD MAC.

Perhaps stopping after Tusk would have been an option, but their career would have severely waned without a successful Mirage and Tango. SYW sucks, so he should have stopped after Tango.

His songs don't suck. His songs were real complete songs. Her songs sucked. Buckingham/McVie is a much better album.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

His songs don't suck. His songs were real complete songs. Her songs sucked. Buckingham/McVie is a much better album.

But as a whole, it's just too damned long, with too many sh*tty songs. Silver Girl, Illume, and yes, I'm not fond of Come(I've never been much on screaming).

I've not listened to SYW for god, probably at least 5 years(probably closer to 10). I LOVE Buck/Vie, and will listen to it until the day I die. I listened to White last night, and Rumours tonight, so it's in good company.

[Macfan4life]

This is a loaded question so its hard to answer. The answer is yes and no and who cares. Lindsey has changed like all of us change over the years. I remember an interview he did during Mirage where he stated he saw his future of never touring after the age of 40 LOL

I think even he admits her solo success bothered him. I think the jealousy definitely made him regret helping her. He has said this numerous times in interviews that it was hard for him to help her but he still did.

After Tusk I dont think he helped her to the degree he did in the earlier years. And to be honest, it would have been really hard to do it anyway. She was not sober in the early Tango days.

If he could turn back time would he have still done it? Probably so because in those early days her success was his success. Did he regret it later on? Yes. Does he care today? Probably not. Lindsey seems at peace these days and not into fighting but more setting the record straight. He would go back to the Mac and help Stevie if asked to do it. Although it wont happen.

Strange enough Lindsey even helped Stevie when she was not around making his voice sound like hers and doing clever things in layering her voice in areas on Tango. So even post Tusk, he was still a team member making the group effort the most important thing. Stevie's songs on Tango suck not because he did not want to help her but that she contributed bad songs and she was not around in the process to make them better. You can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig

I also think he worked his ass off on SYW and she has some great songs on there (sorry Homer). BTW, stop hating on Lindsey for the way he sings and plays guitar (come).

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I also think he worked his ass off on SYW and she has some great songs on there (sorry Homer). BTW, stop hating on Lindsey for the way he sings and plays guitar (come).

You're not a bit sorry!!!

And Come sucks.

[David]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

After Tusk I dont think he helped her to the degree he did in the earlier years.

I think you’re right. I don’t think he spent much time on songs like “That’s Alright” and “Straight Back” (a pretty straightforward pop-funk arrangement) and that godawful “Welcome to the Room, Sara” (which almost feels like a deliberately bad imitation of island). However, he did expend a huge amount of orchestration on “Gypsy.” Who knows? Maybe he was in a better mood around her for a few weeks there — or he was challenging himself to arrange something right down to the ground and that happened to be the song on the reel-to-reel at that point.

I voted YES because when he loaded another song with a lot of great ideas and execution, we all benefited, all us listeners. If it rubbed him the wrong way to have to do so, tough.

I think that a lot of the problem Stevie had with his work on her work on the 2003 album involved that recurrent effect on her vocal of a bottomless phaser — you hear it on about four of her tracks. (It mimics listening to someone on your land line with the mouthpiece put down on a glass table.) I can’t help thinking he was doing something very deliberately in part because he knew she wouldn’t necessarily like it (something that was hugely different from her solo album vocals around that time). That’s not the same thing as trying to sabotage her, but it does involve his going ahead with what he wanted to do with production despite her wishes. And she flipped.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

This is a loaded question so its hard to answer. The answer is yes and no and who cares. Lindsey has changed like all of us change over the years. I remember an interview he did during Mirage where he stated he saw his future of never touring after the age of 40 LOL

I think even he admits her solo success bothered him. I think the jealousy definitely made him regret helping her. He has said this numerous times in interviews that it was hard for him to help her but he still did.

After Tusk I dont think he helped her to the degree he did in the earlier years. And to be honest, it would have been really hard to do it anyway. She was not sober in the early Tango days.

If he could turn back time would he have still done it? Probably so because in those early days her success was his success. Did he regret it later on? Yes. Does he care today? Probably not. Lindsey seems at peace these days and not into fighting but more setting the record straight. He would go back to the Mac and help Stevie if asked to do it. Although it wont happen.

Strange enough Lindsey even helped Stevie when she was not around making his voice sound like hers and doing clever things in layering her voice in areas on Tango. So even post Tusk, he was still a team member making the group effort the most important thing. Stevie's songs on Tango suck not because he did not want to help her but that she contributed bad songs and she was not around in the process to make them better. You can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig

I also think he worked his ass off on SYW and she has some great songs on there (sorry Homer). BTW, stop hating on Lindsey for the way he sings and plays guitar (come).

I think the help he gave her on Tango was ENORMOUS. She sounded like sh&t during most of that time, couldn't show up to the studio, and was falling apart personally. He worked his arse off to make her sound like she had made a contribution worthy of being listed on the album (also thanks to Sandy Stewart).

Did he do it just for HER though? Of course not. He did it for himself, for the band. I agree with those who say he was aware of his reputation as a producer and didn't want to jeopardize that. He produced her songs enough that no one could accuse him of not helping her, but agree he let some clunkers through that in the past he would have not. Then again, he had more power over her before her solo success. "You will never rule again the way you have ruled"

[jwd]

They all needed each other. The sum was greater than the parts.

[On Ice]

In retrospect, Lindsey is far and and away Stevie's best musical arranger/producer. Not only were the songs better, but he always knew exactly what to do with them, even the Tango stinkers had some clever added touches which would have been great if the songs were better written. By and large, all of those songs hold up better than any solo effort, sans Bella Donna and 1/2 of the Wild Heart, there just is no comparison. Everything that happened with the band is of course decades water under the bridge, but I think had Rumours sold less than 10 million, it would have been a much better band overall and we maybe would have at least another 5 albums in our collection. Purely looking at Stevie though, the cold hard truth is that she desperately needed an intervention and a break from the road in about mid 77 to save her sanity and her voice which around that time was about to cave. Had that happened, I think her legendary status may actually have been warranted and her voice would have held up better than it has.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by On Ice

In retrospect, Lindsey is far and and away Stevie's best musical arranger/producer. Not only were the songs better, but he always knew exactly what to do with them, even the Tango stinkers had some clever added touches which would have been great if the songs were better written. By and large, all of those songs hold up better than any solo effort, sans Bella Donna and 1/2 of the Wild Heart, there just is no comparison. Everything that happened with the band is of course decades water under the bridge, but I think had Rumours sold less than 10 million, it would have been a much better band overall and we maybe would have at least another 5 albums in our collection. Purely looking at Stevie though, the cold hard truth is that she desperately needed an intervention and a break from the road in about mid 77 to save her sanity and her voice which around that time was about to cave. Had that happened, I think her legendary status may actually have been warranted and her voice would have held up better than it has.

I don't think it would have made a difference in her voice holding out. She never knew how to sing properly, and once she finally had some voice lessons, listen to what we got. There would have been no smoldering Rhiannons, if she'd been holding back, like she's done for the past 30 years.

[FuzzyPlum]

Yes, of course he should have helped her. They wanted and needed success... What was good for her, was good for the band, which was good for him.

... However, what he should have done, and what I'm sure he regrets is not insisting on being properly credited, both as a songwriter and as a producer. He should have put his foot down and insisted on getting recognition. Words by Stevie Nicks, music by Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham.
....yeah, perhaps he deserved sole credit for the music a lot of the time... But maybe that's one argument too far.

If he had proper recognition for her songs and the production, he'd probably be viewed differently now relative to her success.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by On Ice

In retrospect, Lindsey is far and and away Stevie's best musical arranger/producer. Not only were the songs better, but he always knew exactly what to do with them, even the Tango stinkers had some clever added touches which would have been great if the songs were better written. By and large, all of those songs hold up better than any solo effort, sans Bella Donna and 1/2 of the Wild Heart, there just is no comparison. Everything that happened with the band is of course decades water under the bridge, but I think had Rumours sold less than 10 million, it would have been a much better band overall and we maybe would have at least another 5 albums in our collection. Purely looking at Stevie though, the cold hard truth is that she desperately needed an intervention and a break from the road in about mid 77 to save her sanity and her voice which around that time was about to cave. Had that happened, I think her legendary status may actually have been warranted and her voice would have held up better than it has.

It amuses me how much credit Lindsey gets for Stevie’s success on this board. Apparently, he was able to craft her songs into works of art that were huge hits, yet he was unable to do the same for himself. This is not an anti-LB rant, just an observation. A few folks here go on and on about how Lindsey turned Stevie’s songs into masterpieces, to which I say exhibit A- When I See You Again. One of the worst things I’ve ever heard from FM. If Lindsey gets so much credit for Stevie’s successes, he should then get the blame for her failures, and that song is a failure on so many levels. This isn’t directed at you, OnIce, just to folks in general.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by bwboy

It amuses me how much credit Lindsey gets for Stevie’s success on this board. Apparently, he was able to craft her songs into works of art that were huge hits, yet he was unable to do the same for himself. This is not an anti-LB rant, just an observation. A few folks here go on and on about how Lindsey turned Stevie’s songs into masterpieces, to which I say exhibit A- When I See You Again. One of the worst things I’ve ever heard from FM. If Lindsey gets so much credit for Stevie’s successes, he should then get the blame for her failures, and that song is a failure on so many levels. This isn’t directed at you, OnIce, just to folks in general.

Can you provide more exhibits please?
I like When I See You Again. I think The Second Time is her worst ballad ever.

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Can you provide more exhibits please?
I like When I See You Again. I think The Second Time is her worst ballad ever.

Exhibit B- Her entire solo career, of which Lindsey had absolutely nothing to do with.

I remember several reviews of Tango in which When I See You Again was called the weakest song on the album, although a few reviews liked it. The Second Time is not great, either, but it’s not as bad as the former. Faint praise though. Whassa matter… baby… baby… BABY! Nothing on the Second Time is as bad as that.