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[iamnotafraid]

Ever wonder how many minds we've
changed here by arguing?

At least I know I'm right.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

You do realize that nobody voted for Mike Pence and he would of never been elected anyway. You do realize that from day one the public has watched the media and Democrats openly conspire against Trump and try to discredit the election. (Now we are supposed to believe that this is just an honest investigation when you’ve been so obvious about the whole thing.)And you do realize that Democrats already stole the nomination and probably the presidency from Bernie Sanders and they don’t mind doing it again.

Oh and you do realize that Hillary Clinton was caught in lie after lie and nothing happened to her.

People who voted for Trump are just supposed to watch this happen.

People in the US vote for the ticket. You knew Pence would take over at some point if Trump didn't make the full term...and lets face it, at the outset there was always a significant chance Trump wouldn't have made it to the end of a full term. Your voters knew that.

Talk about stealing the presidency. Your Republican party knows all about that. Getting elected with millions less votes than the loser is a big steal. BTW- the election is over- you don't need to keep justifying things with references to Hillary Clinton. She old news. Move on.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by iamnotafraid

Ever wonder how many minds we've
changed here by arguing?

At least I know I'm right.

I Know I'm Not Wrong

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

...and lets face it, at the outset there was always a significant chance Trump wouldn't have made it to the end of a full term. Your voters knew that.

Wrong. This is only something his opponents wish, just like media pundits "knew" he would never be elected.

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Talk about stealing the presidency. Your Republican party knows all about that. Getting elected with millions less votes than the loser is a big steal.

The electoral college which led to Pres. Trump's victory is part of the presidential election process, just as Democrat super-delegates are. Why did no one complain when Hillary received more Democratic primary votes but still lost to Obama in 2008?

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

BTW- the election is over- you don't need to keep justifying things with references to Hillary Clinton. She old news. Move on.

Because she would have been the alternative and many realize America really dodged a bullet there. The election is indeed over. It doesn't matter whether you think you're wrong or right, the reality is that Trump won. Move on.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brown

It doesn't matter whether you think you're wrong or right, the reality is that Trump won. Move on.

He sure did and the whole world has got to live with it. It's not a better place though.

[becca]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

You do realize that from day one the public has watched the media and Democrats openly conspire against Trump and try to discredit the election. (Now we are supposed to believe that this is just an honest investigation when you’ve been so obvious about the whole thing.)

Er, Robert Mueller is a Republican and was appointed by Republicans. I know I know, "shut up Canadian."

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by becca

Er, Robert Mueller is a Republican and was appointed by Republicans. I know I know, "shut up Canadian."

No, you don't have to "shut up" but realize that Mueller was appointed as director of the FBI by George Bush in 2001. Despite the Republican label, there is no love lost between Bush loyalists and Trump supporters who view Bush and his VP Cheney as globalists who in the wake of the 9/11 attacks were eager to start wars and further destabilize the Middle East while protecting their Saudi friends - this, despite the fact that 17 of 19 attackers were Saudi citizens. Bush/Cheney pivoted away from Saudi Arabia in order to take care of "unfinished business" left over from his father's term in office, getting rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Unfortunately, the destabilization campaign continued under Barack Obama and then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who saw to it that Qaddafi was deposed/executed in Libya. The unstable regions then became recruiting hotbeds and a staging ground for Radical Islamic groups such as ISIS. Getting back to Mueller, he was fully on board the Bush agenda and also found favor with Pres. Obama who extended Mueller's term as FBI director. There are legitimate doubts as to Mueller's objectivity and no appeal to such can be made based on supposed party loyalty.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by becca

Er, Robert Mueller is a Republican and was appointed by Republicans. I know I know, "shut up Canadian."

The FBI hates Trump. Many Republicans hate Trump. One of the reasons Trump got elected was because a lot Democrats who voted for him never considered him a true Republican. He has been boxed in that role now because Democrats made it clear from day 1 they were his enemy. His voters understand what he has had to go through and are forgiving. The Deep State wants him gone.

I always voted Democratic until Trump. I’m so glad I did. I love my country and am totally embarrassed of the way Democrats have acted. Their behavior has made me an even bigger supporter of Trump. Trump puts American citizens first. The Democrats put everyone else first, including illegal aliens. There is nothing wrong with loving your country. Democrats want everyone to be ashamed.I cannot vote for the anti-American Democratic Party anymore. They don’t even respect the law, police or free speech anymore. Screw them. They’ve lost my vote.

I’m not a Republican or a Democrat. I’m a Trumpster who loves his country.

[Newzchspy]

so, @fuzzyplum , its OK for HRC to steal a nomination away from Mr. Free Sh*T Bernie Sanders?? It works both ways.

Understand, it's not the MOST votes numerically in the USA that wins elections, its the most votes in the Electoral College states that matter. CA & NY always go Demo anymore, so in our system of checks and balances, we have to temper NY, CA and other liberal bastions with the middle and its ALWAYS the middle that wins elections. Like it or not, that's the way it works.

[becca]

Thank you for those two replies Dr. Brown and Jondalar... it does help to see the thinking behind people's politics. I can certainly agree with being very happy with things Trump said about the whole 'pre-emptive war' Iraq invasion which Bush Jr. and Obama both signed on to. I did hear that Bush Jr. bought record amounts of oil for the U.S. reserve when it was at a record high cost while he was in, a conflict of interest for the oil man way up there past things only alleged about Trump. Before that I figured I would've voted Ross Perot two times; I definitely hoped the U.S. could have a new party or two grow, but that seems further away than ever.

[Dr.Brown]

Originally Posted by becca

I definitely hoped the U.S. could have a new party or two grow, but that seems further away than ever.

I completely agree that the US is very poorly served by a two-party system. I had hoped that in 2016 Trump and Sanders would have been the two candidates to break up entrenched interests within both parties, perhaps permanently splintering them.

I was really disappointed however in how quickly Sanders caved at the Democratic primary convention even though he must have known there was massive fraud against him coming from the Clinton campaign during the primaries. I think Trump has ended up closer to the mark in upsetting the apple cart among the Republicans but still has a ways to go in that direction. IMHO, the less influence we see from "neo-Con" interventionists such as Bush/Cheney, McCain, Romney, etc., the better.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by becca

Thank you for those two replies Dr. Brown and Jondalar... it does help to see the thinking behind people's politics. I can certainly agree with being very happy with things Trump said about the whole 'pre-emptive war' Iraq invasion which Bush Jr. and Obama both signed on to. I did hear that Bush Jr. bought record amounts of oil for the U.S. reserve when it was at a record high cost while he was in, a conflict of interest for the oil man way up there past things only alleged about Trump. Before that I figured I would've voted Ross Perot two times; I definitely hoped the U.S. could have a new party or two grow, but that seems further away than ever.

Just an FYI about Mueller. His team of lawyers include 13 Democrats, 3 Independents and no Republicans. He is a man with a mission. That team is out to get Trump. However, after all this time they haven’t found Trump collusion with Russia. It just turning into a perjury investigation, anything to get the president, someway, somehow. The media has gotten huge ratings with Russian collusion stories but now they are even moving away from it.

[Macfan4life]

FISA Judge 1: Republican
FISA Judge 2: Republican
FISA Judge 3: Republican
FISA Judge 4: Republican
Robert Mueller: Republican
Rod Rosenstein: Republican
Attorney General: Republican
FBI Director: Republican
House: Republican
Senate: Republican

The Trump and Nunes conspiracy
BTW I would imagine most FBI agents did not vote for Hillary Clinton and voted for Trump like all other law enforcement agencies

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by Newzchspy

so, @fuzzyplum , its OK for HRC to steal a nomination away from Mr. Free Sh*T Bernie Sanders?? It works both ways.

Understand, it's not the MOST votes numerically in the USA that wins elections, its the most votes in the Electoral College states that matter. CA & NY always go Demo anymore, so in our system of checks and balances, we have to temper NY, CA and other liberal bastions with the middle and its ALWAYS the middle that wins elections. Like it or not, that's the way it works.

Yes, I know that. I didn't mean they literally stole an election.
You don't seem to have the most democratic example of democracy in the world though when the most popular candidate to the tune of 3 million votes (more than 2% of the electorate) loses- but that's another story.

Anyway, I see there were positive comments from your President regarding gun control yesterday. That's a step in the right direction. I'd be happy for you all if he manages to get something done- He's gone up one notch in my estimation, though the bar is still pretty low. Of course, he might speak to somebody else tomorrow and change his mind.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Yes, I know that. I didn't mean they literally stole an election.
You don't seem to have the most democratic example of democracy in the world though when the most popular candidate to the tune of 3 million votes (more than 2% of the electorate) loses- but that's another story.

Thank god a lot of those Anchor Babies didn't move out of state like they were supposed to. California can grow and grow but electorially it doesn't matter.

Clinton didn't try real hard in the Rust Belt State like Wisconsin and Ohio out of arrogance and that's where she lost. It was her own fault. Plus, the Democrats screwed their strongest candidate, Bernie Sanders, out of the nomination. No one wants to take responsibility for losing. That's what all this Russia nonsense is about.