"The Chain" – Tom B w/ Ann Wilson etc.

[cbBen]

1. 24K Gold guitarist Tom Bukovich, Ann Wilson, etc. soundchecking "The Chain" from 0:40 to 6:20: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIUAv8OeorI

2. I posted this in the Lindsey forum. Tom does an 11-minute podcast (linked below) on Lindsey Buckingham's guitar work and arranging on:

"Never Going Back Again"
"Hold Me"
"Dreams"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBqcKQPjH_c&t=142s (through 10:54)

1. "NGBA": how hard it is to play in a way that maintains the feel and makes it swing and groove (demonstrates two parts Lindsey plays at once)

2. "Hold Me":
–Lindsey being the "master of the overdub" and creative layering
–the angelic acoustic breakdown with multiple acoustic guitars
–Lindsey turning the song into an uptempo pop song aftter Christine brought it in as a slower song*

3. "Dreams": the wisdom and creativity of what Lindsey plays on the pre-chorus (plus other things he contributes to the song)

*note: Because of his work on 24K Gold, Tom got to go to a FM show and meet Lindsey. He approached Lindsey to ask him about "Hold Me." Lindsey's handlers tried to whick him away, but Lindsey overruled them and insisted on talking with Tom. Among other things, Lindsey told Tom about how Christine brought the song in as a slow song and he rearranged it to make it a faster one.

[DownOnRodeo]

So Hold Me was potentially originally another mournful Mirage snoozer from Christine until Lindsey took it to funky town.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

So Hold Me was potentially originally another mournful Mirage snoozer from Christine until Lindsey took it to funky town.

I actually like her demo, but I do love the production of what Lindsey did with it. Especially if he shifted it from slow to up tempo.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I actually like her demo, but I do love the production of what Lindsey did with it. Especially if he shifted it from slow to up tempo.

The "demo" versions on YouTube just sound like early versions and outtakes from the full-band recording sessions. They've already been up-tempoed.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

The "demo" versions on YouTube just sound like early versions and outtakes from the full-band recording sessions. They've already been up-tempoed.

True, I still like LB's version better on the final album.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

True, I still like LB's version better on the final album.

I'm honestly struggling to imagine what a slow-tempo Hold Me demo would have even sounded like. Keen to have a try at a sort of Songbirdy interpretation when I get back to a piano after my holiday.


What this YouTuber says about the intro to Dreams (velvety, analog catnip) made me think about Over & Over as well.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

I'm honestly struggling to imagine what a slow-tempo Hold Me demo would have even sounded like. .

Like Silver Girl

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

So Hold Me was potentially originally another mournful Mirage snoozer from Christine until Lindsey took it to funky town.

I have never heard a down-tempo "Hold Me" and do not know if that is an accurate claim. When interviewed back in '82 about the song, Christine laid out Lindsey's main contributions (removing part of the chorus "Hold me like a good man should" for the "come on and..." and also his insertion of a guitar part at the bridge). I think we would have known if "Hold Me" was ever slow. No one has ever said it was--and the earliest demo we hear sounds a lot like "Got a Hold on Me" in terms of tempo and feel.

[aleuzzi]

Here's the demo I have always thought was her first run-through with the band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOQmPdvV5m0

If Lindsey recommended a faster tempo, good thinking. But I don't get the sense from the song's original construction that it would have been a likely slow tune. Can't imagine it anyway.

For what it's worth, Todd Sharp in his Q&A says he remembers the original conception for "Love Will Show Us How" was a slow, acoustic song. There, I CAN imagine those verses being sung at a slower speed.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Here's the demo I have always thought was her first run-through with the band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOQmPdvV5m0

If Lindsey recommended a faster tempo, good thinking. But I don't get the sense from the song's original construction that it would have been a likely slow tune. Can't imagine it anyway.

For what it's worth, Todd Sharp in his Q&A says he remembers the original conception for "Love Will Show Us How" was a slow, acoustic song. There, I CAN imagine those verses being sung at a slower speed.

.... I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.. but...

[Macfan4life]

I think he was referring to the first demo which none of us would have ever heard. The rougher demos we've heard. When a song writer writes a song, it can be a very rough melody and music track. These "demos" are not the polished ones that appear on the reissue versions of albums. They would be far too rough for any kind of commercial release. Once the song is played around with then its recorded and the more professional demo process starts. People also confuse alternative versions of songs with demos.
Having said that, it is hard to imagine those catchy lyrics at a slower pace. Its possible that piano intro did not come about until the up-tempo process started. Sadly we may never know. Was there not an interview recently with Chris that she does not remember much of the Mirage making process and it was a weird album or something? There was a heavy drug haze over the band so maybe Lindsey is confused with another song.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I think he was referring to the first demo which none of us would have ever heard. The rougher demos we've heard. When a song writer writes a song, it can be a very rough melody and music track. These "demos" are not the polished ones that appear on the reissue versions of albums. They would be far too rough for any kind of commercial release. Once the song is played around with then its recorded and the more professional demo process starts. People also confuse alternative versions of songs with demos.
Having said that, it is hard to imagine those catchy lyrics at a slower pace. Its possible that piano intro did not come about until the up-tempo process started. Sadly we may never know. Was there not an interview recently with Chris that she does not remember much of the Mirage making process and it was a weird album or something? There was a heavy drug haze over the band so maybe Lindsey is confused with another song.

Oh, I get that. I just don’t believe he’s made an accurate comment. Based on Christine’s comments about the song she brought to the band, I’m not believing it was ever slower.

But Love Will Show Us How was definitely slower, based on Todd Sharp’s comments as co-writer. Him I believe.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Oh, I get that. I just don’t believe he’s made an accurate comment. Based on Christine’s comments about the song she brought to the band, I’m not believing it was ever slower.

But Love Will Show Us How was definitely slower, based on Todd Sharp’s comments as co-writer. Him I believe.

Yea, I tend to lean that way too.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Oh, I get that. I just don’t believe he’s made an accurate comment. Based on Christine’s comments about the song she brought to the band, I’m not believing it was ever slower.

But Love Will Show Us How was definitely slower, based on Todd Sharp’s comments as co-writer. Him I believe.

I have same reaction

[David]

It’s easier to believe “Love in Store” was a ballad at first.

All I know is the way that I feel . . .

Like “The Way I Feel.”

I wish they had jacked up the speed on “Wish You Were Here.” That one sort of snoozes along. Imagine it at about a “Dreams” tempo.

Christine once said she would have liked to redo “Prove Your Love” for Mirage. If only!