Rolling Stone: McVie comments on FM and Songbird

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Oh you're mentioning Lindsey. Is Lindsey a member of Fleetwood Mac?

This is the “Rumours” forum and he was a member of that lineup last I checked. I’m just comparing the tours of the two members from that lineup that are on the road.

Five years? The album was released September 17, 2021.

It was finished in 2017, before LBCM. It kept getting delayed, namely due to his bypass and subsequent vocal damage and the pandemic.

Crowded House is touring now for an album that was released in June of 2021.

The recording sessions started the day after the last Fleetwood Mac show in November, 2019, three years after Lindsey started working on his “new” album.

Stevie's last album from 7 years ago was of songs that were 20 years or more old and heard before by her fans during those years.

She’s not trying to shove the “creative visionary” narrative down our throats. She freely admits that she doesn’t write much anymore.

As for sampling, Lindsey's on the stage doing new songs so as long as it's not a hologram, I don't care.

I think it’s the goofiest, cheesiest, most washed up disgraceful display I’ve ever witnessed. I guess I expect more out of “creative visionaries.” How anybody is okay seeing a “Broadway show” instead of a rock show baffles me.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

This is the “Rumours” forum and he was a member of that lineup last I checked. I’m just comparing the tours of the two members from that lineup that are on the road.

So is the point that they're both nostalgia shows? Or do the songs that are performed not count because one's fully live and one isn't?

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It was finished in 2017, before LBCM. It kept getting delayed, namely due to his bypass and subsequent vocal damage and the pandemic.

Were In Your Dreams and 24 Karat Gold new albums at their release? IYD had a number of tunes that were written and demo'd years before 2011. In the liner notes for 24 Karat Gold, Stevie writes "these songs are not new"

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The recording sessions started the day after the last Fleetwood Mac show in November, 2019, three years after Lindsey started working on his “new” album.

And? The album is over one year old. It's not "new." Campbell's definitely the most artistic out of all the FM members.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

She’s not trying to shove the “creative visionary” narrative down our throats. She freely admits that she doesn’t write much anymore.

When did she freely admit that she doesn't write much? She said that before IYD when she was told not to make a new album.
She said she was writing music during lockdown and she gave an interview this year where she says she just wrote one of her best songs.
Watch her 24 Karat Gold Concert video, she says it's not the same Stevie show. 5 years later in 2022, she's doing the predictable Stevie set again, but with an extra cover.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think it’s the goofiest, cheesiest, most washed up disgraceful display I’ve ever witnessed. I guess I expect more out of “creative visionaries.” How anybody is okay seeing a “Broadway show” instead of a rock show baffles me.

Did you go to one of the 2021 or 2022 shows? It didn't feel that way at the ones I saw. The audience didn't seem that way either.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

So is the point that they're both nostalgia shows? Or do the songs that are performed not count because one's fully live and one isn't?

I mean, is a fully live oldies rock concert more or less artistic than a show with five whole new songs that gives the verisimilitude of being a live show, but is largely karaoke? I think it’s kind of moot, TBH.

Is it art when someone has to leave the tour for health issues and his absence is completely unnoticeable?

Either way, I’m not going to either show.

Were In Your Dreams and 24 Karat Gold new albums at their release? IYD had a number of tunes that were written and demo'd years before 2011. In the liner notes for 24 Karat Gold, Stevie writes "these songs are not new"

When did she freely admit that she doesn't write much? She said that before IYD when she was told not to make a new album.
She said she was writing music during lockdown and she gave an interview this year where she says she just wrote one of her best songs.

Watch her 24 Karat Gold Concert video, she says it's not the same Stevie show. 5 years later in 2022, she's doing the predictable Stevie set again, but with an extra cover.

Stevie hasn’t been the one pushing the “creative visionary” narrative for over 40 years. She’s not had that level of pretension.

And? The album is over one year old. It's not "new."

Crowded House have played 39 shows and have 29 scheduled and they have been working on new music. Lindsey has played like 47 shows and has ten more scheduled. So, his album is three years older and he’s doing fewer live engagements.

Campbell's definitely the most artistic out of all the FM members.

I completely agree and I think he’s been making the best albums of the lot.

Then again, I listen to a lot of Outlaw Country on SiriusXM and they’ve been playing a lot of Dirty Knobs.

But, then again, Fleetwood Mac is just a blip in the careers of Mike and Neil.

Did you go to one of the 2021 or 2022 shows? It didn't feel that way at the ones I saw. The audience didn't seem that way either.

No. I saw him in 2018 and was put off by the prerecords (“Surrender the Rain” was especially cringeworthy). Furthermore, when I saw jbrownsjr John’s comment about the show, I decided to skip it.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I mean, is a fully live oldies rock concert more or less artistic than a show with five whole new songs that gives the verisimilitude of being a live show, but is largely karaoke? I think it’s kind of moot, TBH.

It's not moot. You "compared" the tours. I was speaking about how after almost three years of inactivity, there's no FM return but instead Stevie doing a jukebox tour. Prerecorded or not, I think a diverse setlist with new songs is artistic and not everything is prerecorded.

I wish he had postponed the tour so Brett could do it. But did Brett quit for good?

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie hasn’t been the one pushing the “creative visionary” narrative for over 40 years. She’s not had that level of pretension.

But Stevie on her In Your Dreams and 24KG tours, said she's not doing the same songs again; she lied. This tour has same old songs. Same capes. Same video material. Same crackhead dance and spins. It makes her money but is there integrity with that? Do you ever critique Stevie?

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Crowded House have played 39 shows and have 29 scheduled and they have been working on new music. Lindsey has played like 47 shows and has ten more scheduled. So, his album is three years older and he’s doing fewer live engagements.

When should Lindsey have released this album? He worked on LBCM in 2016. In 2016, I'm guessing they were hoping for Stevie to join them; she didn't decided to tour until late August of 2016. 2017 was dedicated to LBCM.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

None of us know.

For all her glowing praise of Lindsey, Christine also said something along the lines that the Stevie-Lindsey dynamic had deteriorated to its worst and had become unworkable.

So what? You don’t really have to interact with each other much on tour, once the set list is nailed down and rehearsed. All you have to do is go out there for two hours and then retire to your separate corners, separate limos, separate hotels, even separate planes. You are not Siamese twins. You are not riding together in a car with your instruments like you were in 1975.

Who cares if they don’t like each other. They never got along, yet Stevie was begging for Lindsey to return when she thought he could still boost her star.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

So what? You don’t really have to interact with each other much on tour, once the set list is nailed down and rehearsed. All you have to do is go out there for two hours and then retire to your separate corners, separate limos, separate hotels, even separate planes. You are not Siamese twins. You are not riding together in a car with your instruments like you were in 1975.

They couldn’t agree even as to what that tour should look like. Again, none of us were there.

And, touring, even at that level, still requires more interaction than just stage time. They might not directly communicate with each other, instead talking through assistants and managers, but there’s always a line of communication.

Who cares if they don’t like each other. They never got along, yet Stevie was begging for Lindsey to return when she thought he could still boost her star.

A comment made in 1990 was hardly relevant in 2018. Feelings and attitudes change in 28 years. Furthermore, she made a cameo for his solo DVD, so whatever debt of gratitude you’re implying she should have had was long paid off.

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Christine is probably getting a call from Sheryl Louis or Irving today.

Next week she'll say "What I meant was I miss the Lindsey from the 70s, not the current Lindsey... he was very mean"

riiiight........ because coked out of his mind mean drunk a**holish 70s Lindsey was somehow ok. but down to earth sober nice now-Lindsey is not ok.

guess there's a sad and wrong lesson in there, somewhere. lately we are seeing too many a**holes win, and nice guys lose.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by elle

riiiight........ because coked out of his mind mean drunk a**holish 70s Lindsey was somehow ok. but down to earth sober nice now-Lindsey is not ok.

guess there's a sad and wrong lesson in there, somewhere. lately we are seeing too many a**holes win, and nice guys lose.

$he wasn't the bo$$ then. $he was lucky to have the gig, since most bands weren't hiring goats. Now that $he's the bo$$, all grudges will be dealt with. $he's a bitter old $hrew.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

A comment made in 1990 was hardly relevant in 2018. Feelings and attitudes change in 28 years. Furthermore, she made a cameo for his solo DVD, so whatever debt of gratitude you’re implying she should have had was long paid off.

It wasn’t just a comment made in 1990. After Christine left Stevie was the one that wanted to accelerate Fleetwood Mac touring. Lindsey was still trying to see if he could get a deal for his solo record. So he was dragging his feet and Stevie was frustrated by that. She wanted to work with him.

And I’m not talking about a debt of gratitude. I’m talking about the common decency of not getting someone fired rather than just walking away yourself, if you find the situation is no longer to your liking. Just leave. I’m talking about not deciding that a situation is intolerable UNTIL you!ve sucked the other person dry. If you’re going to kick them out, why not kick them out when they are still useful to you, if they’re awful. When you wait till you’ve taken all you can get before disposing of them that tells me you kicked them out because the time was finally convenient for you to do it, not because their horrible nature had escalated. ‘Waiter! This soup is bitter. It’s making me sick. it’s entirely inedible, but I drank the last drop of it. Now that there’s no more left, I want my money back. Take this plate away.”


Steve you keep saying we don’t know what happened, but you know good and well that 1977 Lindsey was harder to deal with than 2017 Lindsay. You’re just being coy and contrary, for kicks.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

But Stevie on her In Your Dreams and 24KG tours, said she's not doing the same songs again; she lied. This tour has same old songs. Same capes. Same video material. Same crackhead dance and spins. It makes her money but is there integrity with that? Do you ever critique Stevie?

I took those comments being specific to that tour, not in perpetuity. And, let’s be honest, the band was moving on from that strategy by the end of the last tour.

Again, I’ve dogged Stevie a lot over the years. I have zero expectations from her. She’s an entertainer first and foremost.

When should Lindsey have released this album? He worked on LBCM in 2016. In 2016, I'm guessing they were hoping for Stevie to join them; she didn't decided to tour until late August of 2016. 2017 was dedicated to LBCM.

He was fired in late January, 2018.

I would have released the new album in April, 2018 and enjoyed the free publicity from the band’s media blitz with Finn and Campbell. I mean, he was publicly getting thrown under the bus AND there was a #TeamLindsey movement behind him. He should have used all of it to his advantage.

Get a webcam, do a weekly acoustic song on YouTube/Facebook/IG/Twitter and promote the upcoming album. Then hit the road in late May/early June and stay on the road until the end of the year, still releasing the comp in October.

A golden opportunity that no amount of promotion could ever top just landed in his lap and in classic Lindsey fashion, he blew it.

I mean, wasn’t the fact he wanted to tour this album on Fleetwood Mac’s off nights one of the points of contention during the tour negotiations?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

riiiight........ because coked out of his mind mean drunk a**holish 70s Lindsey was somehow ok. but down to earth sober nice now-Lindsey is not ok.

A-hole Lindsey wrote Monday Morning, I’m So Afraid, Second Hand News, and Go Your Own Way. He actually knew how to rock.

[elle]

if the reason to oust Lindsey was that he's such an ahole, then he should have been ousted when he in fact was an ahole.

or that was not the reason, and someone else is a huge self-important diva ahole these days, powerful enough to push their agenda against what everyone else in the band wanted.


current Lindsey wrote On The Wrong Side, Rock Away Blind, That's The Way Love Goes and Love Is Here To Stay. he doesn't need to be an ahole, young, drunk or high in order to write a great song.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think it’s the goofiest, cheesiest, most washed up disgraceful display I’ve ever witnessed. I guess I expect more out of “creative visionaries.” How anybody is okay seeing a “Broadway show” instead of a rock show baffles me.

Ah well, here's Steve the contrarian again. So, look, I agree that one of the things that bothers me the most about Lindsey's approach to live playing is this obsession with recreating the studio sound and filling in the gaps with technology instead of recreating the songs to work on stage and having actual humans doing the backing vocals and all of that. BUT, your description of Lindsey's show is really ridiculous and over the top. If that's the goofiest, cheesiest, most washed up disgraceful display you've ever witnessed, you should get out more. I saw his show in September 2021 and I didn't feel cheated nor did I feel like I was watching a Broadway musical at any point in the show. Even in those parts where it was clear as friggin day that a computer was enhancing the sound(s). It was a rock show and I walked away feeling like I paid for a great night and my ears were ringing.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by elle

if the reason to oust Lindsey was that he's such an ahole, then he should have been ousted when he in fact was an ahole.

or that was not the reason, and someone else is a huge self-important diva ahole these days, powerful enough to push their agenda against what everyone else in the band wanted.


current Lindsey wrote On The Wrong Side, Rock Away Blind, That's The Way Love Goes and Love Is Here To Stay. he doesn't need to be an ahole, young, drunk or high in order to write a great song.

If he has always been an abusive ahole, why did she rejoin FM for The Dance or afterward? Why was there the foursome for nearly 15 years? He was clearly a giant jerk during the entire SYW process...so why did she go back in 2009? Why in 2013 or immediately again in 2014? Oh that's right, because she needed him to make money.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jmn3

Ah well, here's Steve the contrarian again.

Heaven forbid I have opinions that don’t line up with others.

So, look, I agree that one of the things that bothers me the most about Lindsey's approach to live playing is this obsession with recreating the studio sound and filling in the gaps with technology instead of recreating the songs to work on stage and having actual humans doing the backing vocals and all of that. BUT, your description of Lindsey's show is really ridiculous and over the top. If that's the goofiest, cheesiest, most washed up disgraceful display you've ever witnessed, you should get out more.

After seeing Guided by Voices, Pearl Jam, Richard Thompson, Bob Mould, Clapton, Steve Wiwood, The Byrds, the Rolling Stones, McCartney, CSNY, Heart, and and countless other artists across many genres, I stand by that comment.

I saw his show in September 2021 and I didn't feel cheated nor did I feel like I was watching a Broadway musical at any point in the show. Even in those parts where it was clear as friggin day that a computer was enhancing the sound(s). It was a rock show and I walked away feeling like I paid for a great night and my ears were ringing.

The Broadway comment was something he told a fan, someone on here. I believe, at a M&G. His approach is off putting to me. I was done in 2006 with the stipulation unless Christine miraculously came back.