Terri Schiavo: Please explain something to me...

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Mad4stevie

Did you see the interview with Terri's acutal court appointed guardian, Jay Wolfson?

I found it compelling that all parties were about ready to agree to do specific testing for Terri, and Schiavo's lawyer pulled out at the last minute, not because it was the best thing for Terri, but because he wanted to make the argument that the guardian was unconstitutional. That tells me something about his motivations.

Do you have a link for that?

Jay Wolfson seems to think very highly of Michael Schiavo:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...ck=2&cset=true

Terri's husband isn't the enemy, guardian says
Published February 25, 2005

I received an avalanche of e-mail about Terri Schiavo. The bad information going out on this case is amazing.

What is real and what is not?

For answers, I turned to University of South Florida professor Jay Wolfson. He was appointed as a guardian ad litem for Terri in 2003 and prepared a report on her for Jeb Bush.

After a judge dismissed him in December of that year, Bush and Terri's parents -- Bob and Mary Schindler -- requested he stay on as Terri's guardian. Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, opposed the request.

Wolfson's report is based on court files, depositions, medical records and interviews with everyone involved.

That said, I begin with the most explosive allegation:

Did Michael try to kill Terri?

Wolfson laughs. "No!"

In 1990, Terri went into cardiac arrest, which shut off oxygen to her brain. A potassium imbalance, perhaps caused by an eating disorder, triggered the attack.

Has Michael withheld treatment?

Wolfson's report states that in the four years after her collapse, Michael "had insistently held to the premise that Theresa could recover and the evidence is incontrovertible that he gave his heart and soul to her treatment and care . . . In late autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing and formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months."

Says Wolfson now: "Michael was adoring of her. One nursing home complained he was hostile and abusive of the staff in championing her care. She was immaculately kept. In 13 years, she never had one bedsore."

Is Michael after her insurance settlement?

Wolfson's report says that early on, Michael "formally offered to divest himself entirely of his financial interests in the guardianship estate."

Why doesn't Michael simply turn Terri over to her family?

From the report: "Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

Wolfson told me that when Michael heard this, he said: "That's it. I'm never going to let that happen to her."

Wolfson says the Schindlers later recanted their testimony.

Can Terri recover?

"Theresa's neurological tests and CT scans indicate objective measures of the persistent vegetative state," the report says. "These data indicate that Theresa's cerebral cortex is principally liquid, having shrunken due to the severe anoxic trauma experienced 13 years ago."

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

Well, there's no doubt in my mind that Michael is just as much of a puppet as the Schindler's are for various ideologies and groups.

For who?

[Mad4stevie]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Do you have a link for that?

Jay Wolfson seems to think very highly of Michael Schiavo:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...ck=2&cset=true

Terri's husband isn't the enemy, guardian says
Published February 25, 2005

I received an avalanche of e-mail about Terri Schiavo. The bad information going out on this case is amazing.

What is real and what is not?

For answers, I turned to University of South Florida professor Jay Wolfson. He was appointed as a guardian ad litem for Terri in 2003 and prepared a report on her for Jeb Bush.

After a judge dismissed him in December of that year, Bush and Terri's parents -- Bob and Mary Schindler -- requested he stay on as Terri's guardian. Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, opposed the request.

Wolfson's report is based on court files, depositions, medical records and interviews with everyone involved.

That said, I begin with the most explosive allegation:

Did Michael try to kill Terri?

Wolfson laughs. "No!"

In 1990, Terri went into cardiac arrest, which shut off oxygen to her brain. A potassium imbalance, perhaps caused by an eating disorder, triggered the attack.

Has Michael withheld treatment?

Wolfson's report states that in the four years after her collapse, Michael "had insistently held to the premise that Theresa could recover and the evidence is incontrovertible that he gave his heart and soul to her treatment and care . . . In late autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing and formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months."

Says Wolfson now: "Michael was adoring of her. One nursing home complained he was hostile and abusive of the staff in championing her care. She was immaculately kept. In 13 years, she never had one bedsore."

Is Michael after her insurance settlement?

Wolfson's report says that early on, Michael "formally offered to divest himself entirely of his financial interests in the guardianship estate."

Why doesn't Michael simply turn Terri over to her family?

From the report: "Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

Wolfson told me that when Michael heard this, he said: "That's it. I'm never going to let that happen to her."

Wolfson says the Schindlers later recanted their testimony.

Can Terri recover?

"Theresa's neurological tests and CT scans indicate objective measures of the persistent vegetative state," the report says. "These data indicate that Theresa's cerebral cortex is principally liquid, having shrunken due to the severe anoxic trauma experienced 13 years ago."

He was interviewed on MSNBC. He was complimentary to Terri's parents and when questioned about Schiavo, he referred to the court determination that there was no inappropriate conduct on the part of Michael (withholding treatment, etc.) that he saw.

The issue is that all of his 30 days spent with Terri and any information that he compiled was not used because Felos felt it was more important to make his objection to the appointment of Jay as guardian. This information puts a bit of new perspective on the motivations of Felos, IMO.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

For who?

Felos and his cronies, for one. Do a Google on him, you'll unearth some scary ****.

As much as I agree with the decision to let her die, you can't possibly say with a straight face that things are on the up and up on Michael's side of this whole fiasco. Both he and the Schindler's are puppets. He for Felos and his incredibly twisted ideals, and they for the right-wing fundies. The thing that disgusts me most about it all, though, is that I get the impression that both sides are aware that they're being used and they could care less.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally Posted by dissention

Felos and his cronies, for one. Do a Google on him, you'll unearth some scary ****.

As much as I agree with the decision to let her die, you can't possibly say with a straight face that things are on the up and up on Michael's side of this whole fiasco. Both he and the Schindler's are puppets. He for Felos and his incredibly twisted ideals, and they for the right-wing fundies. The thing that disgusts me most about it all, though, is that I get the impression that both sides are aware that they're being used and they could care less.

I can agree with you about the fact that there are forces at work here on both sides of the fence that have nothing to do with what is right for Terri.

Felos is a nut. Scary guy with scary ideas.

Even if I assume for the sake of argument that Michael does have Terri's best interest at heart, he could very well be bamboozled by this idot lawyer into doing things that advance Felos' crazy ideals instead of Terri's rights.

Ten minutes before the deadline was to expire for the parties to reach an agreement on further testing for Terri, Felos backs out because of his constitutional argument. It appears that he made the decision that it was more important to object to a guardian (that ultimately would have went his way anyway) being appointed, than to just do the testing for Terri. That's bullsh*t.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

Felos and his cronies, for one. Do a Google on him, you'll unearth some scary ****.

Well, Free Republic comes up high on the Google list for Felos...as do a bunch of other winger sites. If you've got something credible, I'd love to read it if you can post a link.
My understanding is that he hasn't been paid for at least three years, if at all. I think that was pointed out on Larry King the other night.
I'll see if I can find a transcript.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Well, Free Republic comes up high on the Google list for Felos...as do a bunch of other winger sites. If you've got something credible, I'd love to read it if you can post a link.
My understanding is that he hasn't been paid for at least three years, if at all. I think that was pointed out on Larry King the other night.
I'll see if I can find a transcript.

The court documents say that he has been paid over $400,000.00

I will try to find a link to that.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Mad4stevie

The court documents say that he has been paid over $400,000.00

I will try to find a link to that.

Yes but the money ran out three years ago:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...21/lkl.01.html

KING: Shreveport, Louisiana, hello.

CALLER: Yes, I have two questions. I'd like to know why it took him so long to decide that he wanted her to die, and also what happened to the money that was given to her to take care of her for her therapy?

KING: The first question was answered, that for a long time he felt that she might pull through. George, what about the financial end?

FELOS: Well, as on the financial end, Terri's money for years went to her medical care and to her nursing home care, and her guardianship money has also gone to the legal costs and fees. But there hasn't been any money there for, oh, about three years.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Yes but the money ran out three years ago:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...21/lkl.01.html

KING: Shreveport, Louisiana, hello.

CALLER: Yes, I have two questions. I'd like to know why it took him so long to decide that he wanted her to die, and also what happened to the money that was given to her to take care of her for her therapy?

KING: The first question was answered, that for a long time he felt that she might pull through. George, what about the financial end?

FELOS: Well, as on the financial end, Terri's money for years went to her medical care and to her nursing home care, and her guardianship money has also gone to the legal costs and fees. But there hasn't been any money there for, oh, about three years.

Yes. I recall this. But as you can see, he got the cash from the money that was earmarked for Terri's treatment. It certainly doesn't mean that he isn't getting paid from some other source now.

Did you see the issue about Medicare fraud and Felos?

[Mad4stevie]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Well, Free Republic comes up high on the Google list for Felos...as do a bunch of other winger sites. If you've got something credible, I'd love to read it if you can post a link.
My understanding is that he hasn't been paid for at least three years, if at all. I think that was pointed out on Larry King the other night.
I'll see if I can find a transcript.

Many of those links do list specific quotes from his book. Regardless of the commentary, just look at the quotes from his book. Crazy MF.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by markolas

She doesn't have a brain!

Yes, she does. Severely damaged & atrophied, but she does have a brain.

And no, irishgirl, she is not diagnosed as brain dead.

I know, most say "well she's as good as dead, her brain is mush, etc" but please don't make opinion sound like fact. It will only confuse people.

I woke up this morning hoping I'd hear on the news that she had died last night.

The problem with this case is that everyone is confusing the issues & bringing up other issues that are only semi-relevant, or not relevant at all (myself included.) The bottom line is not whether removing a feeding tube is cruel. It's not whether Terri can get better or not. It's not even whether her husband or parents should make the decision.

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) it's whether or not to take her husband's & friends' words as truth that Terri told them at some point she did not want to live with any assistance. Since she did not put anything in writing, or on video, this is the only evidence we have of her wishes - people swearing that she told them she would not want this. Right?

Just wanted to get back to the actual issue here, as several other cans of worms have been opened - by the religious right, our government, the media, all of us. If Terri really did not want this, then I believe that she should be allowed to die as she wished.

Oh, just an opinion about the swallow study. If a person has not eaten anything by mouth in years, a swallow study is extremely dangerous. Actually, it's dangerous any time you suspect that someone may not be swallowing properly. But Terri will not all of a sudden be able to swallow after all this time, her epiglotis has not been used in years & years. The fluid they use for the study will almost definitely flow right into her lungs, which will either cause her to choke to death or will settle into her lungs & eventually cause pneumonia. Either way, it will be painful & she will suffer.

Ice chips, same thing - the water will go into the lungs, not the stomach.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

The problem I have with this case is it doesn't make sense to me WHY someone cannot prove or disprove that Terri is in a PVS. There's so much rhetoric going around from both sides..and I just don't understand WHY it cannot be proven one way or the other. Both sides seem to have doctors who say what they want--is it that hard to diagnose someone being in a PVS?

Chris

[BTFLCHLD]

CNN Breaking News

-- U.S. Supreme Court refuses to intervene in Terri Schiavo case. Lower court decision to remove feeding tube stands.

Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com for the latest news.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

CNN Breaking News

-- U.S. Supreme Court refuses to intervene in Terri Schiavo case. Lower court decision to remove feeding tube stands.

Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com for the latest news.

I knew the Supreme Court would refuse to hear the case. They always avoid making decisions that will piss off one side or the other if they can. However, I do think they were correct in this instance.

[Mad4stevie]

Originally Posted by skcin

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) it's whether or not to take her husband's & friends' words as truth that Terri told them at some point she did not want to live with any assistance. Since she did not put anything in writing, or on video, this is the only evidence we have of her wishes - people swearing that she told them she would not want this. Right?

Oh, just an opinion about the swallow study. If a person has not eaten anything by mouth in years, a swallow study is extremely dangerous. Actually, it's dangerous any time you suspect that someone may not be swallowing properly. But Terri will not all of a sudden be able to swallow after all this time, her epiglotis has not been used in years & years. The fluid they use for the study will almost definitely flow right into her lungs, which will either cause her to choke to death or will settle into her lungs & eventually cause pneumonia. Either way, it will be painful & she will suffer.

Thanks for the information on the swallow test. It helps to have the medical point of view on this.