The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Present Band
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 02-04-2021, 03:49 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 7,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
and that was after Smashing Pumpkins and Hole covers.
She only did three shows in 1996. One was a private show and the other two were festivals, which often pay more than concerts. Itís not like those were tour dates.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:42 AM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,082
Default

Ok...I was a kid at the time and I remember both Hole and Smashing Pumpkins being a really big deal. However, I donít ever recall hearing about their Fleetwood Mac covers AT ALL until well into the dance era.

Is it possible weíre over inflating the impact of those two covers as some sort of spark that began an inevitable comeback?

I call bullsh*t. Thatís just my opinion lol.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:44 AM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,082
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
She only did three shows in 1996. One was a private show and the other two were festivals, which often pay more than concerts. Itís not like those were tour dates.
Yeah exactly. She wasnít even able to book a full tour in 1996. Bingo.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:46 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
I saw her on the Time Space tour. I had 3rd row and she looked right into my face and I saw a true ghost in the fog. She was barely in there. It made me sad. I agree that it was mutual benefits for all involved. Without her, they have to be really creative to continue. Thank goodness for Christine's hits.
__________________
I would tell Christine Perfect, "You're Christine f***ing McVie, and don't you forget it!"

Last edited by jbrownsjr; 02-04-2021 at 08:50 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:47 AM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,082
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. Itís a mutually beneficial relationship.
Classic Steve playbook. The old Lindsey vs Stevie sales comparison. Weíre talking about Stevie, but letís drag Lindsey into this to distract from what weíre actually talking about. Predictable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:52 AM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,082
Default

It’s hilarious that people cannot admit that the reunion saved her a$$ without folks snapping back like a five year old screaming “but he started it!!!!” By providing the old “they would be nothing without her” argument which then devolves into sales comparisons and the same tired arguments of worshippers.

It’s not rocket science, yes the darn reunion tour helped them all. It certainly helped some more than others...but that has somehow become something that nobody likes to admit without taking pot shots at other band members.
__________________

Last edited by BigAl84; 02-04-2021 at 09:12 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 02-04-2021, 09:33 AM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,082
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
I'm curious why we haven't talked about Christine's solo work and how it charted compared to Stevie, if we're going to play the "let's pit solo careers against each other to prove one is superior" game...despite the fact that nobody is trying to say one is more superior than the other.

Oh wait, Christine gets the golden pass. Again.

And that is one heck of a mental leap, by the way. Stevie needed the reunion less because her lowest selling single charted about the same as Lindsey's?? Really...
__________________

Last edited by BigAl84; 02-04-2021 at 09:45 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:10 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 7,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Ok...I was a kid at the time and I remember both Hole and Smashing Pumpkins being a really big deal. However, I donít ever recall hearing about their Fleetwood Mac covers AT ALL until well into the dance era.
I was in college, paying attention to alternative rock and Fleetwood Mac, and those songs were very popular. Iíd hear them on the alternative station all the time, especially Gold Dust Woman. Why do you think they made a point of showing Courtney Love after they performed it on The Dance?

Quote:
Is it possible weíre over inflating the impact of those two covers as some sort of spark that began an inevitable comeback?
Really? Two of the biggest bands of that era cover Fleetwood Mac and people didnít notice? Even Lindsey said that it was like Fleetwood Mac was suddenly not the enemy, or something to that effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Yeah exactly. She wasnít even able to book a full tour in 1996. Bingo.
I was under the impression she was taking a hiatus, but Stevie probably got $100,000 to play 6-8 songs. Not bad for not having an album out and nothing new to promote beyond a song from a soundtrack. Anyway, the momentum for a Fleetwood Mac reunion was in full force. After ďTwistedĒ and the Kentucky Derby thing, it seemed inevitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Classic Steve playbook. The old Lindsey vs Stevie sales comparison. Weíre talking about Stevie, but letís drag Lindsey into this to distract from what weíre actually talking about. Predictable.
Not a jab against Lindsey. Just pointing out that nobody says his career was in the tank after Go Insane, which like Street Angel, peaked at #45. Nobody says TITN saved his ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
I'm curious why we haven't talked about Christine's solo work and how it charted compared to Stevie, if we're going to play the "let's pit solo careers against each other to prove one is superior" game...despite the fact that nobody is trying to say one is more superior than the other.

Oh wait, Christine gets the golden pass. Again.
Christine didnít aspire to be a solo artist. The label pressured her into it, Fleetwood Mac had nothing on the horizon, and she largely had Todd Sharp do the heavy lifting. That said, it peaked at #26 and had a Top 10 single.

Stevie had an actual solo career in which she had more hit singles than in Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey actually quit Fleetwood Mac to become a solo artist. Their solo work is very important to them. Christine couldnít have cared less. Sheíd much rather just be in Fleetwood Mac.

Christine did The Dance as her swan song, not to help relaunch her career. She wanted to go out on a high note, especially after a turbulent decade. The one solo album she made after leaving was a one-off she did with her nephew and did almost no promotion for it. Aside from that, she retired.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:19 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 7,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I saw her on the Time Space tour. I had 3rd row and she looked right into my face and I saw a true ghost in the fog. She was barely in there. It made me sad.
I didnít see that tour, but the BTM tour, and it was the same kind of vibe for me. I was thrilled when she left and they brought on Bekka Bramlett.

Quote:
I agree that it was mutual benefits for all involved. Without her, they have to be really creative to continue. Thank goodness for Christine's hits.
They could have had a set full of hits without her that would have been moderately successful. I think people would have been pleasantly surprised.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:28 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 7,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Itís hilarious that people cannot admit that the reunion saved her a$$ without folks snapping back like a five year old screaming ďbut he started it!!!!Ē By providing the old ďthey would be nothing without herĒ argument which then devolves into sales comparisons and the same tired arguments of worshippers.

Itís not rocket science, yes the darn reunion tour helped them all. It certainly helped some more than others...but that has somehow become something that nobody likes to admit without taking pot shots at other band members.
Reality check: Out of the Cradle peaked at #128, Street Angel #45, Time didnít crack the Top 200, and the two big alternative rock covers were of Stevie songs. Only one member of the band was still remotely viable.

Itís not snapping back, itís putting things into perspective. Itís pointing out your overstatement with, you know, facts.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:35 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
I didn’t see that tour, but the BTM tour, and it was the same kind of vibe for me. I was thrilled when she left and they brought on Bekka Bramlett.


They could have had a set full of hits without her that would have been moderately successful. I think people would have been pleasantly surprised.
I saw BTM in Cleveland (Richfield) and was shocked at how Christine took control. She and Rick took the lead most of the time. Stevie was gonzo, just spinning and going thru the motions. At this time I was really worried about Stevie Nicks. It saddened me how she was twirling at half speed and the look on her face was... "duhhhhh..." And I'm not mocking her, it was just sad.
__________________
I would tell Christine Perfect, "You're Christine f***ing McVie, and don't you forget it!"

Last edited by jbrownsjr; 02-04-2021 at 11:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:55 AM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,082
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Reality check: Out of the Cradle peaked at #128, Street Angel #45, Time didnít crack the Top 200, and the two big alternative rock covers were of Stevie songs. Only one member of the band was still remotely viable.

Itís not snapping back, itís putting things into perspective. Itís pointing out your overstatement with, you know, facts.
Yeah dude and the effing fact is Stevie greatly benefited from the dance reunion. The other members of the band did in other ways as well. Thatís the point.

I still donít understand your need to inject sales stats into a pretty basic statement that doesnít even need record sales stats. It isnít a freaking contest yet people insist on turning it into a stupid contest about singles charting.

Your entire response proves my point. Instead of saying yeah she benefited from the reunion...you went on some whim to say she needed the reunion the least because her rock bottom single charted the same as Lindseyís?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:58 AM
BigAl84's Avatar
BigAl84 BigAl84 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,082
Default

Oh and before you lecture me on facts, do I need to copy and paste the many, many quotes stating Lindsey left Fleetwood Mac because it was just getting too crazy, in the studio and on the road? It wasn’t exactly a “I quit to jump start my solo career” situation.

And boohoo about Christine having contractual obligations. Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine have all had to fulfill contracts along the way just as any recording artist does.

But like I said...Christine alllwaaayyss gets the golden ticket. Same standards that we hold Lindsey and Stevie conveniently don’t apply.
__________________

Last edited by BigAl84; 02-04-2021 at 12:04 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 02-04-2021, 12:17 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 7,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I saw BTM in Cleveland (Richfield) and was shocked at how Christine took control. She and Rick took the lead most of the time. Stevie was gonzo, just spinning and going thru the motions. At this time I was really worried about Stevie Nicks. It saddened me how she was twirling at half speed and the look on her face was... "duhhhhh..." And I'm not mocking her, it was just sad.
Completely get it and completely agree. It was hard to watch.

I also agree about Christine and Rick. They really made the show for me. ďStop Messiní RoundĒ was the highlight of the night for me.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #255  
Old 02-04-2021, 12:32 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 7,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Your entire response proves my point. Instead of saying yeah she benefited from the reunion...
I never said she didn’t benefit from the reunion, I said it didn’t save her ass. She was still somewhat viable. The reunion saved the other four’s asses. They were not viable. My point is that Stevie could have done it without the band, although I’ve also acknowledged that it wouldn’t have had as great an impact.

Quote:
you went on some whim to say she needed the reunion the least because her rock bottom single charted the same as Lindsey’s?
I wasn’t talking about singles, I was talking about album sales. And, the point was Stevie’s rock bottom album peaked at #45 and people like you act like her career was in the tank. However, nobody makes the same kind of comment about Go Insane, which was Lindsey’s second highest charting album, which also peaked at #45. Nobody says Lindsey’s career was in the tank until TITN saved his ass. Just a little hypocrisy.

The numbers provide a little reality check. Lindsey wasn’t viable anymore and Fleetwood Mac without any of the Rumours singer-songwriters fronting the band on stage wasn’t viable, but Stevie was still moderately viable.

Again, all she needed was to quit smoking, lose weight, get a makeover, adopt the godmotherly rock survivor persona, and work with younger, relevant artists like Sheryl Crow, Dave Grohl, etc. Her path back to relevance realistically didn’t require Fleetwood Mac.

HOWEVER, I think Stevie would be too jealous to let the other four do a reunion like that without her. Skipping a new studio album is one thing, but a skipping massive reunion event like that which would have still been loaded with hits would possibly call into question her importance to the band, and she wasn’t about to let that happen.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Christine McVie - Christine Mcvie (reissue) [New CD] Reissue picture

Christine McVie - Christine Mcvie (reissue) [New CD] Reissue

$17.09



Christine McVie - 'Christine McVie' vinyl 1-25059 (1984) picture

Christine McVie - 'Christine McVie' vinyl 1-25059 (1984)

$6.00



CHRISTINE MCVIE/LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM - LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM/CHRISTINE MCVIE NEW CD picture

CHRISTINE MCVIE/LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM - LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM/CHRISTINE MCVIE NEW CD

$15.39



CHRISTINE McVIE Love Will Show Us How 12

CHRISTINE McVIE Love Will Show Us How 12" LP Record Album Vinyl

$5.75



1,000s of LP Records - Your Choice You Choose - VG / VG+  Rock Blues Jazz - ZR1 picture

1,000s of LP Records - Your Choice You Choose - VG / VG+ Rock Blues Jazz - ZR1

$5.99




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved