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  #241  
Old 02-04-2021, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
and that was after Smashing Pumpkins and Hole covers.
She only did three shows in 1996. One was a private show and the other two were festivals, which often pay more than concerts. It’s not like those were tour dates.
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  #242  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:42 AM
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Ok...I was a kid at the time and I remember both Hole and Smashing Pumpkins being a really big deal. However, I don’t ever recall hearing about their Fleetwood Mac covers AT ALL until well into the dance era.

Is it possible we’re over inflating the impact of those two covers as some sort of spark that began an inevitable comeback?

I call bullsh*t. That’s just my opinion lol.
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  #243  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:44 AM
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She only did three shows in 1996. One was a private show and the other two were festivals, which often pay more than concerts. It’s not like those were tour dates.
Yeah exactly. She wasn’t even able to book a full tour in 1996. Bingo.
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  #244  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:46 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
I saw her on the Time Space tour. I had 3rd row and she looked right into my face and I saw a true ghost in the fog. She was barely in there. It made me sad. I agree that it was mutual benefits for all involved. Without her, they have to be really creative to continue. Thank goodness for Christine's hits.
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  #245  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
Classic Steve playbook. The old Lindsey vs Stevie sales comparison. We’re talking about Stevie, but let’s drag Lindsey into this to distract from what we’re actually talking about. Predictable.
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  #246  
Old 02-04-2021, 08:52 AM
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It’s hilarious that people cannot admit that the reunion saved her a$$ without folks snapping back like a five year old screaming “but he started it!!!!” By providing the old “they would be nothing without her” argument which then devolves into sales comparisons and the same tired arguments of worshippers.

It’s not rocket science, yes the darn reunion tour helped them all. It certainly helped some more than others...but that has somehow become something that nobody likes to admit without taking pot shots at other band members.
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  #247  
Old 02-04-2021, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
I'm curious why we haven't talked about Christine's solo work and how it charted compared to Stevie, if we're going to play the "let's pit solo careers against each other to prove one is superior" game...despite the fact that nobody is trying to say one is more superior than the other.

Oh wait, Christine gets the golden pass. Again.

And that is one heck of a mental leap, by the way. Stevie needed the reunion less because her lowest selling single charted about the same as Lindsey's?? Really...
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  #248  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Ok...I was a kid at the time and I remember both Hole and Smashing Pumpkins being a really big deal. However, I don’t ever recall hearing about their Fleetwood Mac covers AT ALL until well into the dance era.
I was in college, paying attention to alternative rock and Fleetwood Mac, and those songs were very popular. I’d hear them on the alternative station all the time, especially Gold Dust Woman. Why do you think they made a point of showing Courtney Love after they performed it on The Dance?

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Is it possible we’re over inflating the impact of those two covers as some sort of spark that began an inevitable comeback?
Really? Two of the biggest bands of that era cover Fleetwood Mac and people didn’t notice? Even Lindsey said that it was like Fleetwood Mac was suddenly not the enemy, or something to that effect.

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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Yeah exactly. She wasn’t even able to book a full tour in 1996. Bingo.
I was under the impression she was taking a hiatus, but Stevie probably got $100,000 to play 6-8 songs. Not bad for not having an album out and nothing new to promote beyond a song from a soundtrack. Anyway, the momentum for a Fleetwood Mac reunion was in full force. After “Twisted” and the Kentucky Derby thing, it seemed inevitable.

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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
Classic Steve playbook. The old Lindsey vs Stevie sales comparison. We’re talking about Stevie, but let’s drag Lindsey into this to distract from what we’re actually talking about. Predictable.
Not a jab against Lindsey. Just pointing out that nobody says his career was in the tank after Go Insane, which like Street Angel, peaked at #45. Nobody says TITN saved his ass.

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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
I'm curious why we haven't talked about Christine's solo work and how it charted compared to Stevie, if we're going to play the "let's pit solo careers against each other to prove one is superior" game...despite the fact that nobody is trying to say one is more superior than the other.

Oh wait, Christine gets the golden pass. Again.
Christine didn’t aspire to be a solo artist. The label pressured her into it, Fleetwood Mac had nothing on the horizon, and she largely had Todd Sharp do the heavy lifting. That said, it peaked at #26 and had a Top 10 single.

Stevie had an actual solo career in which she had more hit singles than in Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey actually quit Fleetwood Mac to become a solo artist. Their solo work is very important to them. Christine couldn’t have cared less. She’d much rather just be in Fleetwood Mac.

Christine did The Dance as her swan song, not to help relaunch her career. She wanted to go out on a high note, especially after a turbulent decade. The one solo album she made after leaving was a one-off she did with her nephew and did almost no promotion for it. Aside from that, she retired.
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  #249  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I saw her on the Time Space tour. I had 3rd row and she looked right into my face and I saw a true ghost in the fog. She was barely in there. It made me sad.
I didn’t see that tour, but the BTM tour, and it was the same kind of vibe for me. I was thrilled when she left and they brought on Bekka Bramlett.

Quote:
I agree that it was mutual benefits for all involved. Without her, they have to be really creative to continue. Thank goodness for Christine's hits.
They could have had a set full of hits without her that would have been moderately successful. I think people would have been pleasantly surprised.
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  #250  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAl84 View Post
It’s hilarious that people cannot admit that the reunion saved her a$$ without folks snapping back like a five year old screaming “but he started it!!!!” By providing the old “they would be nothing without her” argument which then devolves into sales comparisons and the same tired arguments of worshippers.

It’s not rocket science, yes the darn reunion tour helped them all. It certainly helped some more than others...but that has somehow become something that nobody likes to admit without taking pot shots at other band members.
Reality check: Out of the Cradle peaked at #128, Street Angel #45, Time didn’t crack the Top 200, and the two big alternative rock covers were of Stevie songs. Only one member of the band was still remotely viable.

It’s not snapping back, it’s putting things into perspective. It’s pointing out your overstatement with, you know, facts.
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  #251  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:35 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
I didn’t see that tour, but the BTM tour, and it was the same kind of vibe for me. I was thrilled when she left and they brought on Bekka Bramlett.


They could have had a set full of hits without her that would have been moderately successful. I think people would have been pleasantly surprised.
I saw BTM in Cleveland (Richfield) and was shocked at how Christine took control. She and Rick took the lead most of the time. Stevie was gonzo, just spinning and going thru the motions. At this time I was really worried about Stevie Nicks. It saddened me how she was twirling at half speed and the look on her face was... "duhhhhh..." And I'm not mocking her, it was just sad.
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Last edited by jbrownsjr; 02-04-2021 at 11:57 AM..
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  #252  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Reality check: Out of the Cradle peaked at #128, Street Angel #45, Time didn’t crack the Top 200, and the two big alternative rock covers were of Stevie songs. Only one member of the band was still remotely viable.

It’s not snapping back, it’s putting things into perspective. It’s pointing out your overstatement with, you know, facts.
Yeah dude and the effing fact is Stevie greatly benefited from the dance reunion. The other members of the band did in other ways as well. That’s the point.

I still don’t understand your need to inject sales stats into a pretty basic statement that doesn’t even need record sales stats. It isn’t a freaking contest yet people insist on turning it into a stupid contest about singles charting.

Your entire response proves my point. Instead of saying yeah she benefited from the reunion...you went on some whim to say she needed the reunion the least because her rock bottom single charted the same as Lindsey’s?
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  #253  
Old 02-04-2021, 11:58 AM
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Oh and before you lecture me on facts, do I need to copy and paste the many, many quotes stating Lindsey left Fleetwood Mac because it was just getting too crazy, in the studio and on the road? It wasn’t exactly a “I quit to jump start my solo career” situation.

And boohoo about Christine having contractual obligations. Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine have all had to fulfill contracts along the way just as any recording artist does.

But like I said...Christine alllwaaayyss gets the golden ticket. Same standards that we hold Lindsey and Stevie conveniently don’t apply.
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  #254  
Old 02-04-2021, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
I saw BTM in Cleveland (Richfield) and was shocked at how Christine took control. She and Rick took the lead most of the time. Stevie was gonzo, just spinning and going thru the motions. At this time I was really worried about Stevie Nicks. It saddened me how she was twirling at half speed and the look on her face was... "duhhhhh..." And I'm not mocking her, it was just sad.
Completely get it and completely agree. It was hard to watch.

I also agree about Christine and Rick. They really made the show for me. “Stop Messin’ Round” was the highlight of the night for me.
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  #255  
Old 02-04-2021, 12:32 PM
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Your entire response proves my point. Instead of saying yeah she benefited from the reunion...
I never said she didn’t benefit from the reunion, I said it didn’t save her ass. She was still somewhat viable. The reunion saved the other four’s asses. They were not viable. My point is that Stevie could have done it without the band, although I’ve also acknowledged that it wouldn’t have had as great an impact.

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you went on some whim to say she needed the reunion the least because her rock bottom single charted the same as Lindsey’s?
I wasn’t talking about singles, I was talking about album sales. And, the point was Stevie’s rock bottom album peaked at #45 and people like you act like her career was in the tank. However, nobody makes the same kind of comment about Go Insane, which was Lindsey’s second highest charting album, which also peaked at #45. Nobody says Lindsey’s career was in the tank until TITN saved his ass. Just a little hypocrisy.

The numbers provide a little reality check. Lindsey wasn’t viable anymore and Fleetwood Mac without any of the Rumours singer-songwriters fronting the band on stage wasn’t viable, but Stevie was still moderately viable.

Again, all she needed was to quit smoking, lose weight, get a makeover, adopt the godmotherly rock survivor persona, and work with younger, relevant artists like Sheryl Crow, Dave Grohl, etc. Her path back to relevance realistically didn’t require Fleetwood Mac.

HOWEVER, I think Stevie would be too jealous to let the other four do a reunion like that without her. Skipping a new studio album is one thing, but a skipping massive reunion event like that which would have still been loaded with hits would possibly call into question her importance to the band, and she wasn’t about to let that happen.
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