The Chick Fil A Flap

[sparky]

Let me start by saying that I am well aware that the level of intelligent and reasoned discourse on The Ledge has plummeted in the last 3 years to about 5th grade reading comprehension. The majority of educated and thoughtful people flew the coop or were bant years ago. Regardless, I will bring up this topic.

What do you think about the brou haha over the owner of Chick Fil A saying he is proudly against gay marriage? He is unapologetic about donating many millions of dollars to groups like Focus on The Family, who fund all the anti gay marriage amendments across the country.

Here are my thoughts. In no particular order.

I heard this company did such things years ago. I vowed to never give them a cent. They opened a branch about a block from the border of West Hollywood last year. FYI Weho is the Gay Capital here in LA. I went there once to see what the fuss was all about.

The waffle fries were soft. The bun was squishy and flat. The chicken was neither crispy spicy nor was it firm. Overall, it was a letdown. It goes without saying that we gays like our buns firm, and our meat spicy and standing at attention. The food was lame. I wasn't impressed. And I was open to being impressed. If the buns are firm and the meat is top notch, I am there. No go at this place.

I didn't spend a dime of my own money. I turned the meal in on my show. But I do spend my own money with thought. I am not going to spend my cash at a place that actively works to attack homos like myself. This was simply an experiment and it was about 6 bucks.

Now that the owner has come out with his statement, there seems to be a line drawn in the sand. And it has had some odd consequences. '

Tomorrow, on my time, is Chick Fil A appreciation day. Which is evidently the day everyone who opposes gay marriage should spend money there. For which, Sarah Palin and her strangely gay looking (tight plaid pearl button shirt) husband, tweeted a pic of them holding a sack of the food with a thumbs up sign. Sarah had the thumbs up. Gay looking beefcake dude merely looked at the camera grinning.

In turn, government officials from Boston and Chicago said the company was not welcome in their town. The Jim Henson company bailed on a Muppet toy tie in. In retaliation, CFA said the Muppet toys had "safety issues."

Henson has every right to sever ties. But clearly they didn't do due diligence. It is no secret what this company thinks and where they put their money.

But I think the city people are out of bounds. They can't legally deny CFA the right to do business in their cities. I think that is illegal and unethical. Could a bible belt city like Atlanta deny Starbucks a franchise because they are pro gay marriage?

No. Imagine the scandal.

Here is what I cannot understand, and it makes all of the anti gay marriage groups irrelevant: where is the support for straight marriages? Take those by now hundreds of millions of dollars donated to deny the right of gay people to marry. Take that money and open free marriage counseling centers all over the country. Offer pre- marital counseling on conflict resolution, financial planning, and sexual communication. That would eliminate half the divorces right there. And also offer the same services to married people in trouble. THAT is supporting and protecting marriage. Preventing the expansion of marriage rights hasn't saved a single marriage of any str8 people. Honestly. Who ever said, "I got divorced because Ellen and that Ally McBeal chick got married"?

Please.

These people need to put their money where their mouth hole is.

I know that divorce damages people - adults and kids both. If these organizations are so committed to the institution of marriage, where is their support of people getting married and those who are struggling to stay married? There is none. It is all about hating the gays. All about their relentless fascination and obsession with men having sex with each other. Trust me. They never mention lesbians in any meaningful way. The focus is all on "sodomy" and a barrage of commentary on butt sex. And when someone mentions sodomy between heterosexuals there is silence. Is there a hetero couple on earth who hasn't had oral or anal sex? The hypocrisy is unreal yet utterly predictable.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

[mylittledemon]

I am surprised at the level of attention this garnered in the media. I mean, asking the head of a Christian company what he thinks about the matter, and then being outraged at his answer seems a little bit off to me.

I think Dan Carthy (sp?) has to right to think, say, and do what he wants on the subject. It's a free country. On the flipside, I think everyone who disagrees with Carthy has the right to stop eating their delicious chik'un sandwiches and crispy mouth-watering waffle fries, and buy their fast food from some other (possibly) sub-par restaurant that may or may not support other agendas which may or may not be any more beneficial to the world.

Also I was bothered by the response from The Muppets. Now look, I friggin love the Muppets okay. I grew up with them. I felt that Kermit and company should've been backing the right to free-speech, and not getting behind an issue (gay marriage or otherwise).

I also admit I don't know the gory details of the whole saga being over here on the other side of the world where I don't have access to Chik Fil A anymore... and I don't know what Carthy does with his company's money. If all he did was come out and said he disagreed with gay-marriage? Fine. No problem there. If at the same time he's donating and/or supporting groups that are harmful or hateful to anyone for any reason... then that I'm not cool with.

[WildHearted]

I'm surprised that anyone was surprised. The fact that they've donated to groups that are against gay marriage has been known for a while. I mean, come on, the guy's an old devout southern baptist who's restaurant is closed on Sundays. Obviously not all Christian's are against gay marriage (me being one of them) but I don't think what he said should be a shocker... they asked him a question, and he answered honestly. I don't agree with his opinion but that doesn't negate his right to HAVE an opinion.

And if anyone chooses to stop eating at Chick-fil-a in light of that statement, then, well, that's their choice too and I'm not going to lose sleep about it. If they feel strongly about it then they should do what they see fit. But I personally like their chicken and I honestly will probably keep eating there as I have my entire life.

I don't think their entire purpose as a restaurant is to take down gay marriage... they do a lot of good things with their money, too. They provide a lot of scholarships and hold events for a bunch of other charities as well. So while they may be misguided (to many) in one particular area I don't think that they are an evil company or anything. They just support what they believe in, and isn't that what we all do?

Also, as a side note, maybe it's just the location of the Chick-fil-a.. all of the ones in the South that I've ever been too are delicious. In high school, many of my friends worked for Chick-fil-a so I ate there a lot. The only time it's ever been less-than-desirable was when it was like the 'express' version at a college where the chicken sat there pre-made for hours. Their regular chicken is more sweet than spicy, that's what's great about it.

[CADreaming]

-They offer a spicy chicken sandwich now.

-CFA acknowledged the Henson company's decision the day after CFA recalled the toys for safety reasons.

-CFA does support a marriage retreat (along with other youth centered programs).

-I think it's a shame anyone is attacked for their beliefs. This is America. We all have a right to express our opinions and stand up for them, to build companies, to give money to organizations of our choice, and most importantly to VOTE for the people we feel will make every effort to represent us fairly in the arena that makes the laws. Gay marriage laws will not be passed on whether or not people buy a chicken sandwich.

[wondergirl9847]

Why the heck was he even asked the question? What do I care what the CEO of CFA thinks about gay marriage or straight marriage or what his fave Bible verse is?

Just give me some tasty food. That's all I care about.

I'm sure that most companies in America have something they believe in, that I don't. I remember when I was a kid and there were rumours going around that Procter & Gamble were giving money to the Church of Satan. People in my school/church were told not to buy products from that company. Did my mom listen? Nope. It's silliness.

I am so sick and tired of the politics involved with just about EVERYTHING these days.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

-I think it's a shame anyone is attacked for their beliefs. This is America. We all have a right to express our opinions and stand up for them, to build companies, to give money to organizations of our choice, and most importantly to VOTE for the people we feel will make every effort to represent us fairly in the arena that makes the laws. Gay marriage laws will not be passed on whether or not people buy a chicken sandwich.

For one thing, there is no such thing as a "gay marriage law." The issue is about nullifying or amending legislation that has been enacted or worded to specifically deny GLBT equal protection under the constitution and, in California specifically, about the legality of withdrawing civil rights that have already been granted without serving a legitimate public interest.

In a nutshell, money matters. Do you suppose South Africa would have eliminated apartheid if the world simply looked the other way and conducted business as usual with them? Do you suppose North Korea wouldn't have already erased South Korea off of the map if it wasn't for the considerable financial assistance they receive? As the old saying goes: money talks, bull***t walks. And there is no more powerful way to voice ones objections over a social injustice.

One chicken sandwich will not make any difference. But one million? Ten million? That sends a powerful message to other businesses as well as to our political leaders.

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

Why the heck was he even asked the question? What do I care what the CEO of CFA thinks about gay marriage or straight marriage or what his fave Bible verse is?

Just give me some tasty food. That's all I care about.

The issue here is not that the president of CFA has an opinion. The issue is that they knowingly advocated for and made considerable financial contributions to hate groups who are not only working to fight against marriage equality, but also inflicting psychological torture via "reparative therapy" on GLBT youth. Big difference. In essence, a percentage of the money one spends at CFA goes directly into the coffers of these hate groups. Nice.

I'm sure that most companies in America have something they believe in, that I don't. I remember when I was a kid and there were rumours going around that Procter & Gamble were giving money to the Church of Satan. People in my school/church were told not to buy products from that company. Did my mom listen? Nope. It's silliness.

That's not a valid comparison. The P&G "666" rumor was just... rumor and speculation on a par with spinning vinyl albums backwards to hear satanic messages. In the case of CFA, the dots are connected and the president of CFA has gone on record about the corporate stance on the issue. Big difference.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

Just give me some tasty food. That's all I care about.

This reminds me of something. My friend's sister posted a picture on Facebook of a very busy Chick Fil-A the other day, and the caption read "Wow, people are really showing their support for Chick Fil-A!"

Has anyone ever seen a Chick Fil-A that's not rampantly busy at lunchtime... ever? Americans just want their fatty fried fast food, period. They don't give a damn about the denial of equality or civil liberties in this country unless it directly involves them.

"The opposite of good is not evil, the opposite of good is indifference."

And to those who will invariably start rolling out Bible verses, remember that our constitution states our congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Those who claim to be literalist Christians when it comes to marriage are not being honest with themselves, either. How many women have they stoned to death for premarital sex lately? How many women have married their husband's brothers following their husband's deaths? How many are in polygamous marriages, because that's ok too? Let's not forget it's a sin to mix wool & cotton, or to touch the skin of a dead pig. I could go on and on... the point being this: Modern day Christians pick & chose what they believe, what they feel are core tennants of their religion, and the extent to which they follow these tennants.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

-CFA acknowledged the Henson company's decision the day after CFA recalled the toys for safety reasons.

I have heard some things that counter the timing and imply that there was dialogue behind the scenes about pulling the toys earlier. Dunno how reliable it is.

-CFA does support a marriage retreat (along with other youth centered programs).

I had read about that and think it is a good thing. I doubt I'd agree with some of the things they teach and talk about, but that is actual support of marriages and kids and that is going in the right direction.

I think it's a shame anyone is attacked for their beliefs. This is America. We all have a right to express our opinions and stand up for them, to build companies, to give money to organizations of our choice, and most importantly to VOTE for the people we feel will make every effort to represent us fairly in the arena that makes the laws.

People shouldn't be attacked for their beliefs. However, they should be held accountable for the consequences of their actions. Hejira pointed out many dangerous and destructive things that are the result of the actions of the groups CFA's money goes to support. That is what needs to be talked about.

Gay marriage laws will not be passed on whether or not people buy a chicken sandwich.

I agree. It is interesting that so much is turning on this particular subject and how much information is being brought out by it. I like seeing that.

It looks to me to be the last gasp of a certain mindset on the cusp of becoming a minority. They are going down swinging and it is fun to watch. What I am looking forward to is the time when the war is won, and what the discourse is going to be then. Canada has gay marriage. So do many other countries. I wonder what horror stories that has created? None that I've heard of. During this whole debate I never see anyone trotting out statistics and tales of countries falling into ruin because of homos getting married. It is kind of like the DADT repeal. There isn't so much as a whimper. What will the next battlefield be when gay marriage is legal and it turns out to have been nothing to be worried about? I can't wait to see what happens.

[olive]

why would anyone want to put that ( or any fast food) in to their bodies?

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by sparky

It looks to me to be the last gasp of a certain mindset on the cusp of becoming a minority. They are going down swinging and it is fun to watch.

I tend to agree with this. They have their own movies, music, etc, and now they'll have their own fast food joint.

Mr. Cathy is entitled to his beliefs/opinions, as are those who choose to eat at CFA. I do find it interesting that some are arguing this is a First Amendment issue, when it's really not. Clearly, it's about the $$$ being pumped into hate organizations by CFA. And before someone says "they're not hate organizations," denying people their rights is a form of hate to some of us.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by sparky

Let me start by saying that I am well aware that the level of intelligent and reasoned discourse on The Ledge has plummeted in the last 3 years to about 5th grade reading comprehension. The majority of educated and thoughtful people flew the coop or were bant years ago. Regardless, I will bring up this topic.

Wow. Really? Okay... I suppose it's fine for you to have an opinion about people on the Ledge. But for you to try to initiate a dialogue over a current topic by first insulting everyone's intelligence and coming across as someone better/smarter/wiser than everyone else is pretty pathetic. Fail.

Originally Posted by WildHearted

I don't think their entire purpose as a restaurant is to take down gay marriage... they do a lot of good things with their money, too. They provide a lot of scholarships and hold events for a bunch of other charities as well. So while they may be misguided (to many) in one particular area I don't think that they are an evil company or anything. They just support what they believe in, and isn't that what we all do?

Would it make any difference then if Chik Fil-A donated millions of dollars to the Ku Klux Klan? I mean, it's a free country and that is their right, right? That wouldn't make it an evil company, right? They would just be supporting what they believe in.

Yes, that is a slightly extreme comparison, but the principle is the same- the company actively supports organizations that seek to harm LGBT by denying them equal civil/financial rights and by practicing "reparative therapy," which has been completely discredited by the psychiatric community, and has been shown to inflict extreme psychological harm (often resulting in suicide). The Southern Poverty Law Institute has dubbed these organizations, e.g., Focus on the Family, Exodus International, etc. as hate groups. I think the KKK technically qualifies as a hate group as well. If the term "gay marriage" was substituted with the term "people of color" in Dan Cathy's interview, would that affect your stance on whether or not to continue to patronize Chik-Fil-A? And if the answer is yes, why do you think supporting discrimination/animus against GLBT is any different than supporting discrimination/animus against racial minorities?

Much has been said about this controversy and I think it's pretty straightforward.

1. Chik-Fil-A and/or Dan Cathy are entitled to their opinions and are entitled to exercise free speech.
2. The American consumer has a right to exercise his/her free speech by either condoning or boycotting businesses that are/are not in alignment with their values.
3. As long as Chik-Fil-A is observing all local ordinances regarding the opening of franchises, they should be allowed to conduct business wherever they choose.
4. Chik-Fil-A has the right to rise or fall as a result of their chosen position on a controversial social issue.

Personally, regardless of their corporate philosophy, I would never eat at a Chik-Fil-A because I don't meat. And even if I did eat meat, I would balk at the notion of eating so many deep-fried, cholesterol-laden, sodium-laden calories that lack any semblance of nutrition. To sum it up- it's disgusting and unhealthy. Everyone else is free to do what they want with their bodies, and they are free to patronize businesses that are consistent with their core values. However, I also strongly believe that when you spend one penny at organizations that actively support hate groups, you are implicitly saying that it is okay. We are blessed to have choices in this country and Chik-Fil-A is just one of a gazillion other places where hungry Americans can get a quick bite to eat. Why support the establishments that support/condone hatred at the expense of truly charitable "Christian" causes such as helping the poor, downtrodden and underprivileged? If you truly disagree with their stance on the issue of civil rights for GLBT, is it that much of a hardship to choose to voice your disagreement by spending your money elsewhere? Choosing to knowingly support hate groups with your money is simply bad karma.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Wow. Really? Okay... I suppose it's fine for you to have an opinion about people on the Ledge. But for you to try to initiate a dialogue over a current topic by first insulting everyone's intelligence and coming across as someone better/smarter/wiser than everyone else is pretty pathetic. Fail.

Yes. Really. I'm not better/smarter/wiser than anyone else. There just aren't many intelligent and thoughtful exchanges that happen on the Ledge anymore. I lament that fact. There are certainly smart people who still read and post here. This thread shows that. I even got Paula out the woodwork and inspired you to share a number of facts about the issue. So I call it a success.

I find the melee over this whole thing fascinating. And oddly, the MSM is not really reporting on the exact kinds of destruction that are the result of many of the groups this money goes to support. I wonder why?

The twist in this is the debate over trying to shut him up. I don't think he should be shut up. The more these groups are talked about, the more facts that are revealed, the more the general public is disgusted by them. Much of what they do is shrouded by the "protect marriage" and "wholesome" tags they put on themselves. When the exact nature of their activities is in the blinding light of day, it horrifies people.

It is a huge misfire for anyone to have said they want to ban the restaurants. You can't just shut people up because you don't agree with them. What you can do is expose exactly what the money is doing. Hopefully, this drama will bring more of that to light.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Wow. Really? Okay... I suppose it's fine for you to have an opinion about people on the Ledge. But for you to try to initiate a dialogue over a current topic by first insulting everyone's intelligence and coming across as someone better/smarter/wiser than everyone else is pretty pathetic. Fail.



Would it make any difference then if Chik Fil-A donated millions of dollars to the Ku Klux Klan? I mean, it's a free country and that is their right, right? That wouldn't make it an evil company, right? They would just be supporting what they believe in.

Yes, that is a slightly extreme comparison, but the principle is the same- the company actively supports organizations that seek to harm LGBT by denying them equal civil/financial rights and by practicing "reparative therapy," which has been completely discredited by the psychiatric community, and has been shown to inflict extreme psychological harm (often resulting in suicide). The Southern Poverty Law Institute has dubbed these organizations, e.g., Focus on the Family, Exodus International, etc. as hate groups. I think the KKK technically qualifies as a hate group as well. If the term "gay marriage" was substituted with the term "people of color" in Dan Cathy's interview, would that affect your stance on whether or not to continue to patronize Chik-Fil-A? And if the answer is yes, why do you think supporting discrimination/animus against GLBT is any different than supporting discrimination/animus against racial minorities?

Much has been said about this controversy and I think it's pretty straightforward.

1. Chik-Fil-A and/or Dan Cathy are entitled to their opinions and are entitled to exercise free speech.
2. The American consumer has a right to exercise his/her free speech by either condoning or boycotting businesses that are/are not in alignment with their values.
3. As long as Chik-Fil-A is observing all local ordinances regarding the opening of franchises, they should be allowed to conduct business wherever they choose.
4. Chik-Fil-A has the right to rise or fall as a result of their chosen position on a controversial social issue.

Personally, regardless of their corporate philosophy, I would never eat at a Chik-Fil-A because I don't meat. And even if I did eat meat, I would balk at the notion of eating so many deep-fried, cholesterol-laden, sodium-laden calories that lack any semblance of nutrition. To sum it up- it's disgusting and unhealthy. Everyone else is free to do what they want with their bodies, and they are free to patronize businesses that are consistent with their core values. However, I also strongly believe that when you spend one penny at organizations that actively support hate groups, you are implicitly saying that it is okay. We are blessed to have choices in this country and Chik-Fil-A is just one of a gazillion other places where hungry Americans can get a quick bite to eat. Why support the establishments that support/condone hatred at the expense of truly charitable "Christian" causes such as helping the poor, downtrodden and underprivileged? If you truly disagree with their stance on the issue of civil rights for GLBT, is it that much of a hardship to choose to voice your disagreement by spending your money elsewhere? Choosing to knowingly support hate groups with your money is simply bad karma.

As a man, "who happens to be gay", I'm very proud to read this post (5th grade grammar notwithstanding) and; I am in awe of your lucid and articulate views. These concepts are very close to my thoughts on the subject. Only an individual can decide what they choose to believe and support. It's really that simple. Follow your conscious folks.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Would it make any difference then if Chik Fil-A donated millions of dollars to the Ku Klux Klan? I mean, it's a free country and that is their right, right? That wouldn't make it an evil company, right? They would just be supporting what they believe in.

Yes, that is a slightly extreme comparison, but the principle is the same- the company actively supports organizations that seek to harm LGBT by denying them equal civil/financial rights and by practicing "reparative therapy," which has been completely discredited by the psychiatric community, and has been shown to inflict extreme psychological harm (often resulting in suicide). The Southern Poverty Law Institute has dubbed these organizations, e.g., Focus on the Family, Exodus International, etc. as hate groups. I think the KKK technically qualifies as a hate group as well. If the term "gay marriage" was substituted with the term "people of color" in Dan Cathy's interview, would that affect your stance on whether or not to continue to patronize Chik-Fil-A? And if the answer is yes, why do you think supporting discrimination/animus against GLBT is any different than supporting discrimination/animus against racial minorities?

I love everything about this post and agree 100%. This is the crux of the argument. People don't get how people like Dan Cathy and his support of said groups HARMS people. I guess because we're dealing with homosexuality, it's okay to discriminate? That kind of thinking needs to be run out on a rail and NOT tolerated AT ALL.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by sparky

Let me start by saying that I am well aware that the level of intelligent and reasoned discourse on The Ledge has plummeted in the last 3 years to about 5th grade reading comprehension. The majority of educated and thoughtful people flew the coop or were bant years ago. Regardless, I will bring up this topic.

What do you think about the brou haha over the owner of Chick Fil A saying he is proudly against gay marriage? He is unapologetic about donating many millions of dollars to groups like Focus on The Family, who fund all the anti gay marriage amendments across the country.

Here are my thoughts. In no particular order.

I heard this company did such things years ago. I vowed to never give them a cent. They opened a branch about a block from the border of West Hollywood last year. FYI Weho is the Gay Capital here in LA. I went there once to see what the fuss was all about.

The waffle fries were soft. The bun was squishy and flat. The chicken was neither crispy spicy nor was it firm. Overall, it was a letdown. It goes without saying that we gays like our buns firm, and our meat spicy and standing at attention. The food was lame. I wasn't impressed. And I was open to being impressed. If the buns are firm and the meat is top notch, I am there. No go at this place.

I didn't spend a dime of my own money. I turned the meal in on my show. But I do spend my own money with thought. I am not going to spend my cash at a place that actively works to attack homos like myself. This was simply an experiment and it was about 6 bucks.

Now that the owner has come out with his statement, there seems to be a line drawn in the sand. And it has had some odd consequences. '

Tomorrow, on my time, is Chick Fil A appreciation day. Which is evidently the day everyone who opposes gay marriage should spend money there. For which, Sarah Palin and her strangely gay looking (tight plaid pearl button shirt) husband, tweeted a pic of them holding a sack of the food with a thumbs up sign. Sarah had the thumbs up. Gay looking beefcake dude merely looked at the camera grinning.

In turn, government officials from Boston and Chicago said the company was not welcome in their town. The Jim Henson company bailed on a Muppet toy tie in. In retaliation, CFA said the Muppet toys had "safety issues."

Henson has every right to sever ties. But clearly they didn't do due diligence. It is no secret what this company thinks and where they put their money.

But I think the city people are out of bounds. They can't legally deny CFA the right to do business in their cities. I think that is illegal and unethical. Could a bible belt city like Atlanta deny Starbucks a franchise because they are pro gay marriage?

No. Imagine the scandal.

Here is what I cannot understand, and it makes all of the anti gay marriage groups irrelevant: where is the support for straight marriages? Take those by now hundreds of millions of dollars donated to deny the right of gay people to marry. Take that money and open free marriage counseling centers all over the country. Offer pre- marital counseling on conflict resolution, financial planning, and sexual communication. That would eliminate half the divorces right there. And also offer the same services to married people in trouble. THAT is supporting and protecting marriage. Preventing the expansion of marriage rights hasn't saved a single marriage of any str8 people. Honestly. Who ever said, "I got divorced because Ellen and that Ally McBeal chick got married"?

Please.

These people need to put their money where their mouth hole is.

I know that divorce damages people - adults and kids both. If these organizations are so committed to the institution of marriage, where is their support of people getting married and those who are struggling to stay married? There is none. It is all about hating the gays. All about their relentless fascination and obsession with men having sex with each other. Trust me. They never mention lesbians in any meaningful way. The focus is all on "sodomy" and a barrage of commentary on butt sex. And when someone mentions sodomy between heterosexuals there is silence. Is there a hetero couple on earth who hasn't had oral or anal sex? The hypocrisy is unreal yet utterly predictable.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

I stopped reading this post after the first sentence. Alienating your audience is usually not what you want to do BEFORE making your point. Good job.