Sen. Kerry calls for filibuster of Alito

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

btw, the Dems DO have legitimate items on their agenda, to wit:
Democratic Agenda

PR bull**** is what it is. You can polish a turd, but in the end, it's still processed ****.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by dissention

PR bull**** is what it is. You can polish a turd, but in the end, it's still processed ****.

kinda like your missing link eh?

you cant have it both ways. you cant say they dont have an agenda and then pooh pooh the agenda when its presented to you. No matter how you characterize the political climate, its impossible to accomplish ANYTHING unless you have some maneuvering room which the Dems sadly have not had much of.

btw: methinks you know entirely too much about turds.

[snowman]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Fukc those stupid republicans and fukc that piece of **** Alito.

Filibuster that motherfukcer!!!!

In a year from now, this will all have blown over. Five years from now, you won't even remember who this guy is...

[amber]

Oh, by the way my friend gave me a good site today, here it is. I guess some of you rad people might know about it already.
alternet.org. I'm reading cool environmental stuff right now.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by snowman

In a year from now, this will all have blown over. Five years from now, you won't even remember who this guy is...

Unless Roe is overturned.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by amber

Oh, by the way my friend gave me a good site today, here it is. I guess some of you rad people might know about it already.
alternet.org. I'm reading cool environmental stuff right now.

Thanks for the link Amber, Im going to spend some time looking it over, it looks interesting....

[dissention]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Misleading. Democrats supported the Bush administation's use of force only after going to the U.N. for resolution support. Bush never did.

You obviously didn't read H Joint Res 114.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/.../~c107PujZqi::

It clearly states that while Bush committed to work with the United Nations on September 12, 2002 to enforce United Nations Resolutions on disarmament, he has full discretion on use of the Armed Forces in Iraq. It did not require Bush to get UN Security Council approval; it even praised his diploamtic efforts! It gave him unilateral authority to declare war. Even if Saddam had agreed to comply with the resolutions, H Joint Res 114 was so broad that it afforded Bush the opportunity to strike Iraq after compliance.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

They were utter dolts for giving him such discretion.

Originally Posted by The Tower

Anyone who didn't support it would have been strung up as a traitor during that immediate post 9/11 euphoria. No one in congress even READ the Patriot Act. It never, ever should have been passed by anyone- but to ignore political realities is extremely naive.

Weren't you the one who was just trumpeting "integrity" in the face of self-serving political maneuvering?

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think most people supported invading Afghanistan. I think you supported it (somewhere back in old threads, though I'm not 100% sure).

Bull****ing**** I did. I was, and still am, 100% opposed to invading Afghanistan at the time they did so. We should have been in there within a week, not two ****ing months later.

Originally Posted by The Tower

I believe a significant majority of Americans oppose national health care. I could be wrong, though. I support national health care.

I honestly don't know if the majority of Americans oppose national health care.

Originally Posted by The Tower

Agreed. And that is a ****ty, ****ty thing that I hope gets fixed.

Awww, but Pelosi promises to fix it for us.

Originally Posted by The Tower

Some, but not most.

Most. Even Hillary Clinton supports them. Who could possibly forget the spectacle she put on after Election '04 where she praised faith-based initiatives to her high heavens? Most Dems support them because they seem to think they'll score points with the moderates. It's nothing but DLC swill.

Originally Posted by The Tower

Again, some, but not most.

Are you for real? Bill ****ing Clinton declared war on medicinal marijuana!

Originally Posted by The Tower

Possibly when it passed years ago,

Possibly? Look at the numbers, dude.

Originally Posted by The Tower

but I doubt it would fly today.

I'm sure the DLC would disagree with you.

Originally Posted by The Tower

The senate democrats should be ashamed of themselves for that. However, just who were the members of the CBC that called the election results a fraud?? Hmmm, let's see.... could it be, oh, I don't know..... Democrats????

Yeah, TRUE Democrats, not spineless wimps who pander to the moderates and leave their base & principles for dead. Oh, how few and far between they are.

Originally Posted by The Tower

Tell that to Russ Feingold.

Not good enough if you ask me.

Originally Posted by The Tower

Yep. Politics is a very dirty business, always has been, always will be- especially in today's times. However, I'll still stick to the good fight and try not to lose hope. Otherwise, what's the point?

You stick to the good fight, more power to ya. I'll stick with the fight that actually gives a flying turkey about the people of this country, not the corporations and the greedy fukcs who do nothing unless it's beneficial to them.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Unless Roe is overturned.

You're delusional if you think that would ever happen.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by dissention

You're delusional if you think that would ever happen.

What makes you say that? that is the ONE thing the GOP is rabid about due to the Religious Right pushing them on..

I'd like to think its safe but it sure doesnt seem that way with Alito about to be confirmed...once he helps overturn it, mission accomplished. The Religious Right has no more agenda (at least not one as "hot button"...no, not even gay marriage, tho I know its crucial for many here, you still dont comprise over half the population)

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

What makes you say that?

Because that issue performs better for them than Chaka Khan at the RNC. It ain't never gonna happen.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by dissention

You obviously didn't read H Joint Res 114.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/.../~c107PujZqi::

It clearly states that while Bush committed to work with the United Nations on September 12, 2002 to enforce United Nations Resolutions on disarmament, he has full discretion on use of the Armed Forces in Iraq. It did not require Bush to get UN Security Council approval; it even praised his diploamtic efforts! It gave him unilateral authority to declare war. Even if Saddam had agreed to comply with the resolutions, H Joint Res 114 was so broad that it afforded Bush the opportunity to strike Iraq after compliance.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

They were utter dolts for giving him such discretion.



Weren't you the one who was just trumpeting "integrity" in the face of self-serving political maneuvering?



Bull****ing**** I did. I was, and still am, 100% opposed to invading Afghanistan at the time they did so. We should have been in there within a week, not two ****ing months later.



I honestly don't know if the majority of Americans oppose national health care.



Awww, but Pelosi promises to fix it for us.



Most. Even Hillary Clinton supports them. Who could possibly forget the spectacle she put on after Election '04 where she praised faith-based initiatives to her high heavens? Most Dems support them because they seem to think they'll score points with the moderates. It's nothing but DLC swill.



Are you for real? Bill ****ing Clinton declared war on medicinal marijuana!



Possibly? Look at the numbers, dude.



I'm sure the DLC would disagree with you.



Yeah, TRUE Democrats, not spineless wimps who pander to the moderates and leave their base & principles for dead. Oh, how few and far between they are.



Not good enough if you ask me.



You stick to the good fight, more power to ya. I'll stick with the fight that actually gives a flying turkey about the people of this country, not the corporations and the greedy fukcs who do nothing unless it's beneficial to them.

Diss, the Democratic party that I remember cared about the little guy. the immigrant, the minority, the poor, the uneducated. The Democratic Party I remember was all about elevating the disadvantaged to a point where they could be self sufficient. THAT'S the Democratic Party I support. Its still in there somewhere, even tho lately its been lost inside the GOP house of mirrors. The Democratic Party I remember was composed of idealists, of dreamers, of Union members, of fringe groups that wanted a voice and representation.

Somewhere in the apathetic mess that the Party seems to have degenerated into, is the kernel of idealism, of hope that was the Democratic Party at its best. Im sure Im not alone when I say that I believe the Party still has the seeds of greatness within. All of your scorn and derision sounds to me like a closet Dem who has been disappointed. If that's true, I dont have the words to say how much I wish it were different. If your only task in life is to serve as a burr under the Democratic Saddle, then we can only benefit! Keep up the good work.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by dissention

Because that issue performs better for them than Chaka Khan at the RNC. It ain't never gonna happen.

I think you're wrong. I think it can be used as a springboard to get more votes.

and unfortunately, the young women of today dont realize what they are about to lose and as such, are playing into the hands of the master prestidigitators.

[stargazer99]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I'd like to think its safe but it sure doesnt seem that way with Alito about to be confirmed...once he helps overturn it, mission accomplished. The Religious Right has no more agenda (at least not one as "hot button"...no, not even gay marriage, tho I know its crucial for many here, you still dont comprise over half the population)

I think the bolded part is why Roe may be safe. If the religious right is given everything they want, what's to keep them around as part of the Repugs' "base"?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by stargazer99

I think the bolded part is why Roe may be safe. If the religious right is given everything they want, what's to keep them around as part of the Repugs' "base"?

at that point tho, are they really needed? if it accomplished the goal of overturning Roe, then who needs the Religious Right Wackos anyway? The GOP survived without the Religious Right for many many years before and will again.

To think that the GOP wont be able or willing to overturn Roe simply due to an unwillingness to lose their political base is naive. there will still be enuff of a base to ride that roller coaster all the way to hell.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Diss, the Democratic party that I remember cared about the little guy. the immigrant, the minority, the poor, the uneducated. The Democratic Party I remember was all about elevating the disadvantaged to a point where they could be self sufficient. THAT'S the Democratic Party I support. Its still in there somewhere, even tho lately its been lost inside the GOP house of mirrors. The Democratic Party I remember was composed of idealists, of dreamers, of Union members, of fringe groups that wanted a voice and representation.

Somewhere in the apathetic mess that the Party seems to have degenerated into, is the kernel of idealism, of hope that was the Democratic Party at its best. Im sure Im not alone when I say that I believe the Party still has the seeds of greatness within. All of your scorn and derision sounds to me like a closet Dem who has been disappointed. If that's true, I dont have the words to say how much I wish it were different. If your only task in life is to serve as a burr under the Democratic Saddle, then we can only benefit! Keep up the good work.

I'm not a closet Dem and never was. When I was a member of that party, I didn't keep it a secret. When I left that party after the last election, I didn't keep it a secret, either.

The Democratic party you remember is long gone, unfortunately. That is my opinion. It is no longer a party that fights for the working-class, it is a party that puts big business above all else and only when big business is appeased will the lowly proletarians get a few crumbs tossed their way. Are those crumbs bigger than anything tossed by the Republican party? Yes. But they are not enough for me to be complicit in what I see as the constant raping of the American public. They need to offer action, not inaction. They need to offer change, not stagnation. They need to offer a genuine sense of care and empathy, not an emotion-triggering talking point that offends in it's sterility.

I realize that people think voting for Green candidates or Independent candidates is akin to wasting your vote, and I'm fine with that. I stopped seeing a difference between the two parties in our current system quite a while back and I'm now perfectly content to vote for what I think is right, not for who might win. If the Democrats cannot offer me anything much different than the Republicans, I feel as if voting for them will be wasting my votes. At least now I can sleep better at night knowing that I didn't sell myself out.