Diana Krall's Christmas Songs - Page 7

strandinthewind · #91 11-02-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

But what about those who truly do believe in the love of Jesus Christ and living their life as he lived his? I understand what you mean about getting wrapped up in "religion" it is very easy to do that...

But, that is an academic argument. I know very few people "who truly do believe in the love of Jesus Christ and living their life as he lived his" - I do, however, know lots who want others to live their life like his and will leave no stone unturned to manipulate them into doing so, which includes using the full weight of the law to achieve that end. That is where people have huge issues with religion. It is not an attack on personal Faith. It is an attack on the latter, which I submit almost every Christian I know does a la gay marriage.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #92 11-02-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, that is an academic argument. I know very few people "who truly do believe in the love of Jesus Christ and living their life as he lived his" - I do, however, know lots who want others to live their life like his and will leave no stone unturned to manipulate them into doing so, which includes using the full weight of the law to achieve that end. That is where people have huge issues with religion. It is not an attack on personal Faith. It is an attack on the latter.

And that is respectable...I understand where you are coming from.

Jyqm · #93 11-02-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

So it really is a personal spiritual experience. I guess you are asking more what does GOD do for us...that is a hard one to explain too...A simple and basic response for me would be the fact that I am able to get out of bed every morning and enjoy another day...

As someone else said elsewhere in this thread, whatever gets you through the night. But no need to feel sorry for those who can get out of bed and enjoy the day on their own.

Or did you mean that in a more literal creation way?

DavidMn · #94 11-02-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And that is respectable...I understand where you are coming from.

HEY HEY HEY!!!!! we cant have you people agree on things now!!!!

Brwn_eyes0511 · #95 11-02-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

It's still a flop, I don't know what she's trying to say. Possibly because I'm incapable of wrapping my brain around the fact that people put faith in such an intangible thing as "God." Possibly because I don't see the attraction.

But, to some degree, don't you feel that you've been conditioned to feel that way? Would you not be able to get out of bed each day to enjoy another day if you had never been "taught" about God and Jesus Christ, or if you had simply rejected them upon their presentation to you?

Yes I suppose that is true. But "reject" them in substitution for what exactly?

I suppose the ultimate question is boiled down to...Are we the chance result of some great accident, or do we have a purpose here? Maybe this earth was made for us. Maybe that is selfish, but maybe there is a loving God.

We are given the freedom to except or reject whatever we choose. I personally think that that is part of the call. God wants us to willingly let him be a part of our lives.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #96 11-02-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

As someone else said elsewhere in this thread, whatever gets you through the night. But no need to feel sorry for those who can get out of bed and enjoy the day on their own.

Or did you mean that in a more literal creation way?

I was just trying to speak from the heart.

JazmenFlowers · #97 11-02-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Yes I suppose that is true. But "reject" them in substitution for what exactly?

I suppose the ultimate question is boiled down to...Are we the chance result of some great accident, or do we have a purpose here? Maybe this earth was made for us. Maybe that is selfish, but maybe there is a loving God.

We are given the freedom to except or reject whatever we choose. I personally think that that is part of the call. God wants us to willingly let him be a part of our lives.

see, this is another thing I take issue with. God wants us to be willing to let him into our hearts, blah blah blah...what are we? some damn lab experiment...he plops us down here and can't control Adam and Eve and things go to ****, there's lust and hate and violence, but at the end of the day he just wants to be in our hearts and for us to love him our entire life and serve him so we can make it to heaven...wtf?

oh yeah, and if you happen to love someone of the same sex or don't exactly believe some things in the Bible, you'll burn for eternity in hell...

strandinthewind · #98 11-02-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

. . . We are given the freedom to except or reject whatever we choose . . . .

But, that exact position is not followed by the far religious right. They want to take away that choice and make people participate in Christianity as part of the laws of this nation. I realize this is political, but the two go hand in hand these days and to discuss one, you pretty much have to include the other. In other words, while you may think we are given the freedom to except or reject whatever we choose, the real world applicaiton is not that

This is why people like me, and apparently you if you truly believe it is a choice, see through the rhetoric from the religious conservatives in this country. I am not trying to be antagonstic. I am trying to show you that your Faith has nothing to do with being a conservative these days.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #99 11-02-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

see, this is another thing I take issue with. God wants us to be willing to let him into our hearts, blah blah blah...what are we? some damn lab experiment...he plops us down here and can't control Adam and Eve and things go to ****, there's lust and hate and violence, but at the end of the day he just wants to be in our hearts and for us to love him our entire life and serve him so we can make it to heaven...wtf?

I can understand that. And when looked at that way I see where a sense of anger can come from. It goes beyond any bible story or what you have been taught. The heart of believing is having that safety net. The one who, you know at the end of the day will not let you down. The one who created you and loves as your own unique person. I don't have any problem with people who choose not to believe. I am just always puzzled why they fight so HARD not to believe.

Jyqm · #**100** 11-02-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

It's a great thought to want to and try to live your life free of sin (however you define that), but I don't feel it's possible

Well yes, that's more or less the crux of Christianity.

Quote:

But, to be clear, if people live their life the way they think Jesus did, then that's a great way to attempt to live, but holding yourself up to the standard of someone written about in such high regard only sets you up for failure. He was written as perfection, no one is perfect. Therein lies the problem, IMO.

Again, also kind of the point for Christians. Every Christian who actually follows his own theology know that he is a failure in this regard, because it is impossible to live without sinning. But the whole point is that God loves you anyway.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #**101** 11-02-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, that exact position is not followed by the far religious right. They want to take away that choice and make people participate in Christianity as part of the laws of this nation. I realize this is political, but the two go hand in hand these days and to discuss one, you pretty much have to include the other. In other words, while you may think we are given the freedom to except or reject whatever we choose, the real world applicaiton is not that

This is why people like me, and apparently you if you truly believe it is a choice, see through the rhetoric from the religious conservatives in this country. I am not trying to be antagonstic. I am trying to show you that your Faith has nothing to do with being a conservative these days.

You are trying too hard Jason. Why are you even bringing politics into this! I don't want anything to do with that right now...

dissention · #**102** 11-02-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Yes I suppose that is true. But "reject" them in substitution for what exactly?

In substitution for nothing. Why do humans possess the pathological need to believe in a higher power?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

We are given the freedom to except or reject whatever we choose. I personally think that that is part of the call. God wants us to willingly let him be a part of our lives.

I understand that you believe that, but since "God" has never manifested himself, how do any of the believers out there know what he wants? Did Jesus say so? And if he did, isn't it faith that also propels the belief in Jesus? With all of the glaring hypocrisies and contradictions in the Bible, how can it be relied upon for much of anything?

Point being that none of these beliefs have any tangibility to them and are simply proffered by organized religion and the Bible as things that just require your faith. Whether or not one agrees with me, I've always considered the belief in God and Jesus Christ to be very much like the childhood belief in Santa Claus. Children are told from early on that Santa Claus brings presents for them on Christmas, and they believe it.