Producer for a new album

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

You must not be a Tina fan because you'd know that statement is patently false.

Yes, it is incorrect to say that Tina has never written a song in her life.
Because, in a career that has spanned five decades, she's written two ("Nutbush City Limits" & "Tina's Wish").

I have to admit that as much as I love Tina, Cher & Bette, I really don't put them in the same category with Stevie, because those women have largely built their success on recording other people's material.

In the late '80s, especially, Tina & Cher relied heavily on folks like Diane Warren & Desmond Child, who were noted "hit-makers," for their material.
And even today, Cher & Tina focus mostly on recording songs with club-play potential.

Outside of recording songs by Jon Bon Jovi & Brett Michaels (who, ironically, were on the downslide of their popularity when Atlantic pushed Stevie to record their songs), and other than recording the couple Tom Petty songs, Stevie has usually covered material by songwriters most people wouldn't know of. Or who weren't exactly known for their hit-making potential.

Even Heart... who I love... Ann & Nancy had a hand in writing only two songs ("Never" & "There's The Girl"), out of all their '80s and early '90s singles.

On the flip-side, only two of Stevie's singles were written by other songwriters, prior to 1990 (and only three in the decade+ since then).

So I think considering Stevie was still largely writing and releasing her own material, and not that of noted hit songwriters, I think her success and longevity as a female pop/rock artist is pretty spectacular, and damn-near incomparable.

[snwriter]

You guys may think Cher rocks like Stevie, which I definitely don't agree with, but Stevie does not favor ballads. She's still rocking on the current tour with "Rhiannon," "Stand Back," "Gold Dust Woman," and "Say You Will." The albums has rockers like "Smile at You," "Running Through the Garden," "Destiny Rules," and "Everybody Finds Out." Stevie doesn't do shlocky pop like Cher, Midler, Patti Labelle, etc. Blondie DOES have a HUGE variety of styles, and Debbie comes closest to Stevie as a rocker. But you can't knock Stevie's "lean" years without acknowledging that Debbie had a few of her own.

And TISL rocked with "Bombay Sapphires," "Fall From Grace," "Sorcerer," "Planets," etc. Stevie is far from finished rocking.

As far as Tina, she may do all those styles, but they ain't her songs. She has more energy in concert but her tours are spaced much more apart than Stevie/FM and she is essentially retired now.

Oh, and when Bowie was the glam Ziggy Stardust, he rocked heavier than any of these women, most definitely heavier than Cher's pop/rock.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

Now, I agree that TISL would have happened with or without the Mac reunion, but if she hadn't reuinted with the Mac, it would have had less exposure than Street Angel did. Heck, who knows if she would have even gotten a record deal without that reunion. She would have been forgotten by the masses and that's exactly what happened in '94 and up until the reunion. Without that reunion, her career would not have improved.

Not to sound like I'm picking on you, dissention, but I also want to make a clarification here.

Stevie's deal with Warner/Reprise was signed in late 1996 (she bought out the rest of her Modern/Atlantic contract with the promise of a boxed-set, so she could sign with Warner)... prior to 'The Dance.'

So obviously someone felt that Stevie wasn't a washed-up has-been, and had potential to continue selling albums even before 'The Dance' was a done-deal.

[snwriter]

Trackaghost,

If you read my post #95, you can see I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by snwriter

Trackaghost,

If you read my post #95, you can see I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!

Ditto.

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I have to say I am totally dismayed and amazed Stevie is being compared to Cher and Tina et al.
I have nothing against those singers but someone please help me out, they have nothing in common. The fact that Stevie is a singer/songwriter makes a huge difference to me. I can't imagine Stevie doing a dance album in order to sell more records and appeal to the "kids" either. Fine for Cher, she's a pop act, an entertainer but Stevie's appeal is entirely different. I would rather compare her to Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, Mick Jagger even (all men I know, but that's where Stevie stands for me, with the rock stars)
I can't help feeling a bit disturbed...

I think the comparison comes from the fact that they're all middle-aged women in the contemporary music market.
But I agree that Stevie has very little in common with Cher & Tina (or even Bette).
I see Stevie's female peers as being Pat Benatar, Ann & Nancy Wilson, Chrissie Hynde and Debbie Harry.

[snwriter]

Johnnystew wrote:

I see Stevie's female peers as being Pat Benatar, Ann & Nancy Wilson, Chrissie Hynde and Debbie Harry.


I agree with this. IMO, Debbie comes closest to matching Stevie's successes. Pat has really not measured up in any way to her hitmaking heyday, and the most of her own stuff she ever wrote was 50%. The Wilsons had years of mostly Dianne Warren-style pop stuff, though they have re-emerged strongly recently. Chrissie is a great talent, but some of her recent albums have really been lacking and she has even resorted to opening for others--something Stevie thank God has never had to do. And, again, their lean years have been many more than Stevie's and they have all been judged 'hasbeens' (unfair) at one time or another.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I have to say that I am a little confused in regards to the statement that, "more than half of the songs she recorded during this time weren't even written from her pen."
You repeated that statement in a second post too... "From '91-'96, more than half of what she recorded was not her own material."

How do you come up with that figure? From 1991-1996, the songs she recorded that were written by other songwriters were:
"Sometimes It's A Bitch"
"Love's A Hard Game To Play"
"Docklands"
"Unconditional Love"
"Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind"
"Just Like A Woman"
"God's Garden"
"Inspiration"
"Somebody Stand By Me"
"Free Fallin'"

10 songs. Out of 22.
Admittedly I'm not the greatest when it comes to mathematics, but I'm pretty sure that's less than half. Even if just slightly.
But it's certainly not "more than" half.

I stand corrected. But it still doesn't make her contributions or her artistic viability any better in my eyes.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I have to say I am totally dismayed and amazed Stevie is being compared to Cher and Tina et al.
I have nothing against those singers but someone please help me out, they have nothing in common. The fact that Stevie is a singer/songwriter makes a huge difference to me. I can't imagine Stevie doing a dance album in order to sell more records and appeal to the "kids" either. Fine for Cher, she's a pop act, an entertainer but Stevie's appeal is entirely different. I would rather compare her to Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, Mick Jagger even (all men I know, but that's where Stevie stands for me, with the rock stars)
I can't help feeling a bit disturbed...

If you and others didn't spin it, you wouldn't be disturbed.

No one is comparing their music at all. It's the comparison between middle-aged women who are still very successful in their chosen profession tha tis being made.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

I stand corrected. But it still doesn't make her contributions or her artistic viability any better in my eyes.

Fair enough... although I still firmly believe that Stevie's "slump" wasn't nearly as dreadful as it's made out to be.
I also feel that any discussions of her diminished popularity during that time-period, should always take into account that none of the artists who were huge in the '70s and '80s were having any major success in the early-to-mid-'90s. Outside of Tom Petty & Aerosmith.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The fact is Stevie rode those bad times and is STILL HERE. That's what matters and shows her worth. A lesser artist wouldn't still be packing in the crowds and releasing decent selling albums. When an artist manages to survive bad/lean times, they become a rock survivor and a legend. And Stevie is both those things.

Exactly, I agree with that 100%, Sharon.

Unfortunately, it seems that unless someone thinks everything Stevie's recorded is a work of art, they're judged as being against Stevie, one of those types who "mock" her, or someone who despises her music. I mean, it gets a bit ridiculous at times how people react towards someones opinion on Stevie with such animosity and sarcasm.

From now on I will profess my undying love to all things Stevie, to hell with anyone who finds her singing about laundromats ridiculous.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Fair enough... although I still firmly believe that Stevie's "slump" wasn't nearly as dreadful as it's made out to be.

And that's your right, as is mine to say that I don't like most of her stuff from the nineties. But you can't possibly say that you're very objective about it. j/k

[snwriter]

Dissention:

I AGREE WITH YOU!!!! that "Docklands" was a dumb choice for Stevie to record. But with her vocals on it, it ain't all that bad. It could have been worse, she could have sung a Dianne Warren song and sounded like Aerosmith did on "I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing"! Hell, then maybe she would have had her first #1 since "Dreams"! But, I'll take "Docklands."

Seriously, I admit Stevie has a few clunkers, like much of "1000 Days," "Two Kinds of Love," etc. I don't even like that much a song that she likes, "Whole Lotta Trouble." I can see her flops, I just see much less than you.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by snwriter

Dissention:

I AGREE WITH YOU!!!! that "Docklands" was a dumb choice for Stevie to record. But with her vocals on it, it ain't all that bad. It could have been worse, she could have sung a Dianne Warren song and sounded like Aerosmith did on "I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing"! Hell, then maybe she would have had her first #1 since "Dreams"! But, I'll take "Docklands."

Sorry, I hate both.

Originally Posted by snwriter

Seriously, I admit Stevie has a few clunkers, like much of "1000 Days," "Two Kinds of Love," etc. I don't even like that much a song that she likes, "Whole Lotta Trouble." I can see her flops, I just see much less than you.

The misconception around here is that people believe I hate most of Stevie's stuff. That's not the case. I've even admitted to liking a few Street Angel songs and I've totally warmed up to most of RAL. I love the Mirror album and a lot of people see that as her worst. But the truth is, I simply don't like most of Street Angel or the "me" songs. That's it.

[snwriter]

Dissention:

Why not change your image of Stevie from the "Hold Me" video to the cover of "Street Angel"!