Did the doc hurt Lindsey?

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I have the wrong chords.

Those won't help me, Johnny.

[Les]

Originally posted by sodascouts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was the first time he ever said that. He was asked about it mutliple times in 1992 and did not.

He was coy about it in some of the 1992 interviews, but he did eventually admit to it back then. He even said back then that Mick knew it was about him, and that they'd talked about it, lol, so I don't really quite know what to make of Mick's response about the song in Lindsey's BTM as if the song and its inspiration were news to him. It all makes me laugh though.

[Is Wrong about Mick and his tell-all biography?] I used to dodge that question when it first came out [laughs]...but I've seen Mick since then. He's listened to it and knows what it's about. There was a little bad blood when Mick's book came out, because there were a lot of things in it that were either very hard slants to me, on what my contributions had been, and there were a couple of things in there that were just downright not true. Everyone in the band was disappointed that he put out something trashy that didn't really need to be put out - except maybe for the money. And this was just my way of...just kind of a gentle tongue-in-cheek slap on the hand [laughs].
Austin, TX radio interview, Spring 1993

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by Les
He was coy about it in some of the 1992 interviews, but he did eventually admit to it back then. He even said back then that Mick knew it was about him, and that they'd talked about it, lol, so I don't really quite know what to make of Mick's response about the song in Lindsey's BTM as if the song and its inspiration were news to him. It all makes me laugh though.

Thanks, Les. I guess I just got it [altogether now] WRONG!

[rcb77]

I've been lurking on the Ledge for the past month or so, catching up on things in Macland and waiting for a subject that got me going, and this is it... The doc just reinforced my belief that Lindsey is the best, and the catalyst for everything that this band does. Without his commitment, the album and tour don't happen. I thought the idea of a double album was great, if a bit idealistic and over-zealous, but hey, he's got a lot of stuff he wants to get out there (but I don't think he should be just throwing out stuff piecemeal onto the net -- I still prefer albums).
One quick story -- I watched the doc with my fiancee, who is somewhat knowledgable about the Mac. After Stevie said something totally off the wall for about the tenth time in the doc, she turned to me and said, "How has Lindsey put up with that for 30 years?" I love Stevie, but one has to wonder sometimes....

[wondergirl9847]

Good to know that you came out of lurkdom to respond to my thread!

You might wanna add your opinion to Carne's thread regarding LB putting his music on the net.

[Cammie]

Glad your responding with commen sense here Ryan!!!
You said what we tried to! Welcome Comments! Sky

[Mari]

I just watched the doc on a tape Shackin'Up was so kind to send me
Got quite a different impression of it than I first had from watching all the short clips on Burnish.net etall.
Thumbs up for Lindsey, he really did his best to make SYW a great artistic/creative work. But Stevie and her 'commercial gods' ... urgh. She did contribute some wonderful songs, though.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Mari

I just watched the doc on a tape Shackin'Up was so kind to send me
Got quite a different impression of it than I first had from watching all the short clips on Burnish.net etall.
Thumbs up for Lindsey, he really did his best to make SYW a great artistic/creative work. But Stevie and her 'commercial gods' ... urgh. She did contribute some wonderful songs, though.

Give me a break - I think you post these to incite people. If you think for one minute LB did not want a commercial record I suggest you watch the doc. again. In the end, LB specically says he has to consider the commercial aspects to pay for his new house (IN BEL AIR) and for his new family. I wonder how many millions that takes? Moreover, do you think LB is going to get these millions from the non-commercial gods? To the contrary, LB wanted a successful record which by definition means it must be commercial

NOTE: Please do not take this as a slam on LB. It is not. I am posting this because I am sick and tired of people slammig Stevie for being practicle and for having the sand to say exactly what LB thinks and does in the end

[Mari]

no, I did not post it to incite people. Crap. Thank you very much.
This is just my view. I think this discussion has gone on loooooooong enough, so I 'll settle for, My View vs Your View, let's agree to disagree??

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Mari

no, I did not post it to incite people. Crap. Thank you very much.
This is just my view. I think this discussion has gone on loooooooong enough, so I 'll settle for, My View vs Your View, let's agree to disagree??

You view is conpletely unsupported by the facts. If I am wrong, please cite facts to support it.

[Mari]

Like I already said, this discussion has gone on looooong enough. If you really want to, go ahead and read plenty of other pages full of comments about the documentary, and you'll find what you're looking for.
But what I was angry about and what you chose not to react on, is that ridiculous attack I only want to "incite" people or only want to slam on Stevie. Why can't you respect my opinion simply for what it is, an Opinion!
What now, is this the "a true fan is never critical" thing? Give me a break.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Mari

Like I already said, this discussion has gone on looooong enough. If you really want to, go ahead and read plenty of other pages full of comments about the documentary, and you'll find what you're looking for.
But what I was angry about and what you chose not to react on, is that ridiculous attack I only want to "incite" people or only want to slam on Stevie. Why can't you respect my opinion simply for what it is, an Opinion!
What now, is this the "a true fan is never critical" thing? Give me a break.

Once you said you did not post to incite, I accepted that as true. That is why I did not comment on it. I believe you

As for your view, I was merely pointing out that LB and SN are both beholden to commercial viability because they both choose to record in the manner they do (renting a mansion in Bel Air, signing with WB because of, inter alia, the larger advance, etc.) and want to support, by their own words, the expensive lifestyles they live. Clearly, the facts support that Yet, it seems people just want to slam Stevie for it by posting comments like when you commented "Thumbs up for Lindsey, he really did his best to make SYW a great artistic/creative work. But Stevie and her 'commercial gods' ... urgh. She did contribute some wonderful songs, though." To me that says Stevie is all about the money and LB is not - LB has too much integrity for that and Stevie does not. That is just wrong for the reasons I and others posted earlier in this thread and in other threads But, if my literal interpretation of what you said is wrong and you did not mean that - I apologize with my hat in my hand.

[shackin'up]

Well, it's fought over a lot on this board, but the fact lindsey is constantly talking about " doing something extraordinary ", that he wants to push boundries and being not save, and more commercial, realistic argument in this doc. are pronounced by Stevie and Mick are just facts. If Stevie just stated something more about the artwork itself and how she relates to the unsave lindseystuff, AND about her own "pushing boundries-songs" like Illume and Smile at you that would have been smart in terms of presenting an image of yourself. As well as lindsey could have commented more on what he sees as commercially interesting with this batch of songs. In this documentary we just get the stereotypes of each member reaffirmed. And they were part of that. So if we respond in the same preoccupied way, we should not blame eachother. We should blame the company that Fleetwood Mac is. Give us some insight in how they relate to eachothers work, not to eachothers idea of what's smart in terms of success. I do like the doc, though, because there's a lot to see in the nonverbal info: the songs they sing in the studio, on the couch, the expression in their faces during the argument about TD, Stevie and her fish, Lindsey with his great face stating "why should it be any different now, ha!" and Johns reaction, I could go on and on....

gerald

[Mari]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Once you said you did not post to incite, I accepted that as true. That is why I did not comment on it. I believe you

Ok, apologies accepted

As for your view, I was merely pointing out that LB and SN are both beholden to commercial viability because they both choose to record in the manner they do (renting a mansion in Bel Air, signing with WB because of, inter alia, the larger advance, etc.) and want to support, by their own words, the expensive lifestyles they live. Clearly, the facts support that Yet, it seems people just want to slam Stevie for it by posting comments like when you commented "Thumbs up for Lindsey, he really did his best to make SYW a great artistic/creative work. But Stevie and her 'commercial gods' ... urgh. She did contribute some wonderful songs, though." To me that says Stevie is all about the money and LB is not - LB has too much integrity for that and Stevie does not. That is just wrong for the reasons I and others posted earlier in this thread and in other threads But, if my literal interpretation of what you said is wrong and you did not mean that - I apologize with my hat in my hand.

I'm surprised how much you can read in two short sentences.
Let me tell you what I meant: I actually winced when she said that. Perhaps Shackin' is right, and she is portrayed in a stereotypical way, but the first thing I felt when I heard her say that, was "eww!". The way I saw it, LB was very enthousiastic about the double-album idea for a long time. Perhaps it wasn't a very realistic idea, but he believed in it, or at least, I believed he believed . So maybe Stevie was right in the end, that the whole money-thing does matter, but to me it comes across pretty materialistic when she says those words.
yeah, you're right, after watching this documentary in whole for the first time last night, I did get the feeling Stevie was all about the money and Lindsey was not. I've a right to say that if that's what I think

Which brings me back to my question, what's wrong with that!

Why use a word like "slamming"?

[strandinthewind]

But, then when LB flat out says he had to be commercial because he has a family to consider, he is building a new house in Bel Air (one of the most exclusive places in the world mind you), etc., did you react like you did to Stevie saying essentially the same thing? From what I have read here and on other threads, most LB fans did not. They saw it as LB giving in to the machinery and the evil and commercial Stevie and FM Certainly that is their right to see LB in that light. But, to me it smacks of a bad double standard that I see often applied. I mean the doc showed Stevie fighting to preserve what she took for the artistic intergrity of her song Thrown Down and many laughed at her and essentially called her a flaky idiot who cannot speak the King's English Yet, when LB sticks up for his artistic integrity it is sacrosanct and nobody better ever comment on it because LB is an artist and Stevie is merely a silly and money grubbing woman who needs LB to take care of her (note this is hyperbole for humor and to add levity )

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that does not mean other people can't comment on it and then point out why they think it is wrong

Finally, I love LB and his work. I think there is no one like him. But, clearly, he wants and needs to sell records just like everybody else and I do not fault him for that as others readily fault Stevie