The Reagans

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Rob67
Too true, too true. There was definitely a liberal bias at Penn State.

Should have gone to Pitt then. They're proudly conservative in their views.

[Rob67]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
For the record, I'm not in college. Not sure if that is what you meant though.

Absolutely not...I just thought it was an interesting discussion that was related to some of our posts and I thought I would share...

By the way...when are we gonna get the Mirage tour video on DVD?

Rob

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
You asked "why punish success," but it sure looks to me like "the little guy" is the one constantly getting screwed-over.
And like it or not, that fosters bitterness.

I hear this all of the time, but then I look back at the recent tax cut and wonder exactly how cutting everyones' taxes screws over anyone, including the little guy. I mean his or her taxes were cut as well. Moreover, I just cannot fathom the argument that some assert that says if you make over $50,000 or $100,000 a year you deserve no tax break whatsoever, but everyone else below you gets one. In that scenario, why is it okay for the little guy to get the break and not the "big guy" - and a lot of those "big guys" used to be little guys. Imagine if you got a raise from $45,000 a year to $55,000 a year and you took home less money after taxes. I'd be pissed. It just seems like it is okay for everyone to be for the little guy, but when one of the big guys says, hey wait a minute what sis I do to deserve this, there is this immediate wall that goes up and people are like "look - you make a lot of $$$ and should, therefore just pay and shut up!" That is so unfair and wrong.

In the end, this is why I truly believe in a flat tax. No one gets screwed that way.

P.S. Johnny Stew - this entire post is not directed at you - I was just picking up on somehting you said and added a broader meaning to it. Also, did you like the librarian scenario earlier in the thread!!!

[Rob67]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I don't think your comments were meant directly towards me... but given that they touch upon some of the things I said, perhaps they were.
...

You asked "why punish success," but it sure looks to me like "the little guy" is the one constantly getting screwed-over.
And like it or not, that fosters bitterness.

So no, I don't think people should be handed anything. That's a ridiculous notion. If you want something out of life, you should work for it.
But don't tell me that I can't get angry with a government that makes it damn-near impossible for those in the lower classes to ever get their head above the water, no matter how hard they're working.

I am sorry if you took my rant that way. I was just sharing an example from my experiences. I live in Pittsburgh which is a blue-collar, unionized, steel town. There is blue collar history all through my family (Steel mill formen, auto mechanics, etc.) We lived through the Mill closings. So I can understand the plight that some people go through. I just hate it when people start blaming everyone else for their problems. Everybody gets dealt a **** hand from time to time. I did, my parents did. Hell, my mother was a housewife with three young kids (oldest was 5 years old, me.) when my father died. She could have easily rolled over and become dependent on Government assistance or family members. What did she do? Took over my father's business, learned how to run it and went back to night school while raising three kids on her own. She got a college degree and is now a corporate executive. She's the prime example of facing adversity and not giving up.

I have read too many stories of people coming to this country and making a fortune out of pennies because they busted their ass and made smart decisions in life. There are a lot of people who bitch about life in this country but have never seen how other countries and cultures exist. THere isn't a country in the world with a better opportunity to make a life for yourself then the US. To think otherwise is foolish. Try living in Germany, France, even China. See what kind of life you could make for yourself. We have the strongest economy in the world, the best standard of living, and the best opportunity to make something of yourself.

Does that mean everyone can succeed? Probably not....in every society there will always be Rich and Poor. Why? Because a fee, capitalist society dictates that it is up to the individual to make it in the world.

Life ain't that bad in the US, folks.

Rob

PS...Sorry I realized I had another Rant.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Rob67
Absolutely not...I just thought it was an interesting discussion that was related to some of our posts and I thought I would share...

By the way...when are we gonna get the Mirage tour video on DVD?

Rob

I already ordered the Brazilian version from ebay. Haven't received it yet though.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I already ordered the Brazilian version from ebay. Haven't received it yet though.

When you get it, let me know if it is "cleaned up." I am sure it is the same set list as the VHS one I have, but my VHS one is 20 years old and was dubbed on a 2 headtop loading VCR (hey it was like 1982 ).

Peace

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
But you can't do a job if you can't FIND a job. And when the economy was in the pits during the Reagan administration, you couldn't find work. At least not if you were "blue collar."
All of those tax cuts that benefit the upper-class take jobs away from those in the lower class.

Yes Johnny there were industrial parts of this country ( and there still are for that matter) where there was literally no work in those days. Nothing. If you could afford to, you moved away. Case in point-the automobile industry.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I hear this all of the time, but then I look back at the recent tax cut and wonder exactly how cutting everyones' taxes screws over anyone, including the little guy. I mean his or her taxes were cut as well.

Well, at the moment, these tax cuts are causing budget problems for local and state governments, because the government is giving them less money to work with, because they're getting less money from the taxes we pay.
So budget cuts have to be made across the board. And they raise local taxes to pick up the slack.

And what gets cut? Jobs. And not management jobs either.
So bye-bye sanitation department workers. Bye-bye trash-collectors. Bye-bye public school teachers.

So you get a governmental tax-cut, but you then have to pay higher local taxes, and quite possibly also have to deal with losing your job or taking a pay-cut.

So as they are, they're just not a feasible way to stimulate the economy, because it only comes back to bite people on the tush.

And at the moment they're really just looking for a quick economic "fix" to help our current President get a second term in office anyway.

Originally posted by strandinthewind
P.S. Johnny Stew - did you like the librarian scenario earlier in the thread!!!

Yes, I did!
I especially liked the part about me being handsome.

[Rob67]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I already ordered the Brazilian version from ebay. Haven't received it yet though.

Really?? I wonder what the quality is like. I would imagine they mastered it from a copy of the VHS tape. I would love a DTS 5.1 remix....

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Rob67
I am sorry if you took my rant that way. I was just sharing an example from my experiences. I live in Pittsburgh which is a blue-collar, unionized, steel town. There is blue collar history all through my family (Steel mill formen, auto mechanics, etc.) We lived through the Mill closings. So I can understand the plight that some people go through. I just hate it when people start blaming everyone else for their problems. Everybody gets dealt a **** hand from time to time. I did, my parents did. Hell, my mother was a housewife with three young kids (oldest was 5 years old, me.) when my father died. She could have easily rolled over and become dependent on Government assistance or family members. What did she do? Took over my father's business, learned how to run it and went back to night school while raising three kids on her own. She got a college degree and is now a corporate executive. She's the prime example of facing adversity and not giving up.

I'm only about 60 minutes from Pittsburgh, so we were in the same situation with steel-mill closings, etc.
Which is where my father, and just about every man in this town, worked.

So thousands of guys all suddenly looking for employment definitely made it nearly impossible to find work.
Luckily my dad always did, but a lot of other guys weren't that lucky. And, as I said before, my dad worked some pretty crappy jobs just to get-by.

I'm sorry that your father passed away when you were so young, but I'm glad your mother was able to take over his business and keep it going.
Not saying that the situation was any less tough for her, but it's good she didn't have to depend on finding work elsewhere, so she could have employment.

I agree with you... we do have it pretty darn good here in the US, but I do think it's pretty naive to think that it's simply up to each individual whether or not they "make it."
If that were so, anybody who's willing to work hard would be rich. And that's definitely not the case, as I've witnessed countless times.

[gldstwmn]

I'm sure it's from VHS but I will let you know.

[Rob67]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I agree with you... we do have it pretty darn good here in the US, but I do think it's pretty naive to think that it's simply up to each individual whether or not they "make it."
If that were so, anybody who's willing to work hard would be rich. And that's definitely not the case, as I've witnessed countless times.

Absolutely it's hard...and nobody told me that life was fair. It does take work, as well as timing and a bit of luck. But you have a better shot here then anywhere else in the world.

Life just keeps rolling on....

Rob

[dissention]

Originally posted by Rob67
I just hate it when people start blaming everyone else for their problems.

Everybody gets dealt a **** hand from time to time. I did, my parents did.

Hell, my mother was a housewife with three young kids (oldest was 5 years old, me.) when my father died. She could have easily rolled over and become dependent on Government assistance or family members. What did she do? Took over my father's business, learned how to run it and went back to night school while raising three kids on her own. She got a college degree and is now a corporate executive. She's the prime example of facing adversity and not giving up.

Does that mean everyone can succeed? Probably not....in every society there will always be Rich and Poor. Why? Because a fee, capitalist society dictates that it is up to the individual to make it in the world.

Life ain't that bad in the US, folks.

It's not???

Until three months ago, I had a job in a welfare office. So, please don't try to say that life isn't that bad in the US. Surround yourself with the poor people of this country and you will see how bad it is.

On one of my last days at the office, a woman came in and started crying. She sat there, in the waiting room with 20 others, and just sobbed. When it was her turn to come into the office, she was hysterical. For almost an hour, this woman released everything that was on her mind. Her husband had died from cancer, she had three kids to raise, no family, no insurance, no means of transporation, she had been laid off three weeks after her husband died, she couldn't afford her mortgage payments, etc. The way our system works, you cannot have a job where you work more than ten hours and still collect welfare assistance. So, she was collecting welfare but couldn't afford anything on those meager checks. If she worked, she'd have to put the kids in daycare but she couldn't afford it and three of our local Head Starts had closed down. She was in misery. Try telling me that her life wasn't that bad.

Life in the US is bad for MANY people, it just doesn't get the publicity that Bush's by-invitation-only Thanksgiving dinner in Iraq with a fake turkey.

Sorry, but once the Republican-ruled government starts taking away monetary aid from the poor people fo this coutnry, when they take away financial aid for education, when they jack up the taxes to pay for mind-numbingly stupid things like Bush's plane landing, after all of that is done, then they have every right to place the blame on the government. Everyone was not born with a silver spoon in their mouth like Bush and not everyone can live like he does.

The notion that in a free, capitalist society it is up to the individual to make it is PROPOSTEROUS. The benefits of our country accrue to the powerful and the rich. The super-rich own 80% of the corporate wealth in this country, 2 percent of the population own 85% of the stock, 99% of all state and municipal bonds, and the lsit just goes on. You will only make it if they let you and that's a fact. The wealth in this goddam country is not in the hands of the middle-class or the lower-class. However, the government still spouts the insidious notion that the economy is all about the "independent producers." Well, hey! Where are those rich producers I've been hearing about? They certainly aren't here in Massachusetts, the state commonly referred to as Taxachusetts.

So, yes, in every society there will be the rich and the poor. But in THIS society, the rich do everything in their power to keep the poor poor.

[strandinthewind]

Does anyone else find it strange that after I made my Patriot Act comment, I could not log onto The Ledge for most of yesterday!

Doo Doo Doo Doo - Doo Doo Doo Doo

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
So, yes, in every society there will be the rich and the poor. But in THIS society, the rich do everything in their power to keep the poor poor.

I cry foul

Lumping all rich together in that boat is like saying all poor people just do not want to work and are content on the govt. tit. While certainly some rich could care a less about the poor, certainly many rich out there give millions away to charity each year. Moreover, most major corporations have vast charity programs. So, while I agree it ain't easy to be poor, the rich similarly are not so generically bad.

Originally posted by dissention
They certainly aren't here in Massachusetts, the state commonly referred to as Taxachusetts.

Well, it is Ted Kennedy's home state!!!