Sen. Kerry calls for filibuster of Alito

[amber]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

More local, like School Board and Board of Supes.

Although Camejo never should have participated in that sham of a recall. As gross as he was, Gray Davis won the election fair and square in '02 and there was no justification for a recall effort to begin a few weeks after that election.

I wouldn't really fault him for that, though. Of course I agree about the recall. I'm glad he participated b/c then there was someone in the debates to say something intelligent besides Huffington.
But - we checked the Boxer thing - all we could find is that she was questioning whether the wiretap was an impeachable offense - which is lame - it's like asking...."is the sky blue?" for all the effect it has. Heck, Joe Biden objected to the tap more than Boxer....I can't believe she spoke out against gay marriage! Dayam!

[Rickypt]

^ I just remember watching Boxer give a 30 minute speech on the Senate floor in December where she was great on the wire-tapping thing and war in Iraq. Of course, it's just compared to all the other drearies in the Senate. No doubt, she has let us down at times. I'd still probably vote for her over a Green challenger because she does the best to pull the Dems to the left.

BTW, I'm pretty sure she's changed her tune on gay marriage.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

^ I just remember watching Boxer give a 30 minute speech on the Senate floor in December where she was great on the wire-tapping thing and war in Iraq. Of course, it's just compared to all the other drearies in the Senate. No doubt, she has let us down at times. I'd still probably vote for her over a Green challenger because she does the best to pull the Dems to the left.

BTW, I'm pretty sure she's changed her tune on gay marriage.

Yes, I think she has, too. Still, though - '04? That was like, 2 seconds ago. How strange.

[Rickypt]

Here's a perfect exhibit of what's wrong with the Dems. This is Nancy Pelosi's "prebuttal" to the State of the Union speech. It is mamby-pamby and allows the GOP to set the agenda for discussion.

An example: don't compare the Dems' health care agenda to Bush's as "making it easier for small business to purchase insurance" vs. his stupid medical savings accounts.

Say this: "Everyone in this country deserves to have access to quality health care regardless of ability to pay and Democrats won't rest until this happens".

Anyway, I find this thing by Pelosi to be very weak and of course people won't flock to the Democrats as alternatives this November if this is what we have to offer.

http://www.house.gov/pelosi/press/re...prebuttal.html

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

Also, most of congress, if not all, knew about the wire tapping since 2001 +.

They did not. It had been kept secret from congress and general what's his name from the NSA testified before congress that the NSA was following FISA procedure which was a lie and is a crime. Until this whole thing was leaked by the NY Times, the administration's stated position was that they were getting court orders for all of their electronic surveillance. All lies and all illegal.

[amber]

Edit - source says congressional leadership at least knew, Pelosi kept her mouth shut b/c no one else was saying anything, and whoever knew, knew they were not getting court orders.
http://www.alternet.org/story/30600/

[estranged4life]

with all the current BS in politics (Sometimes from both parties) I am ever so glad I am an "Independent"...

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

Edit - source says congressional leadership at least knew, Pelosi kept her mouth shut b/c no one else was saying anything, and whoever knew, knew they were not getting court orders.
http://www.alternet.org/story/30600/

The only people in congress who knew anything about this was the House Intelligence Committee and they are required by law to keep those briefings secret from the rest of congress.

That's why Dubya was so pissed that the NY Times printed the article that revealed this whole thing. The Bush administration tried to pressure the NY Times to not print the article, but they gave them the finger.

[amber]

Originally Posted by The Tower

The only people in congress who knew anything about this was the House Intelligence Committee and they are required by law to keep those briefings secret from the rest of congress.

That's why Dubya was so pissed that the NY Times printed the article that revealed this whole thing. The Bush administration tried to pressure the NY Times to not print the article, but they gave them the finger.

They knew, they could've said. Did you read the link? "The failure of these Democrats to risk personal censure for the greater public good ... give[s] the impression there is actually only one political party in the U.S., and that opposition and dissent on issues of security in Washington are only a mirage."

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by amber

They knew, they could've said. Did you read the link? "The failure of these Democrats to risk personal censure for the greater public good ... give[s] the impression there is actually only one political party in the U.S., and that opposition and dissent on issues of security in Washington are only a mirage."

They couldn't have publicly stated what they knew. The briefing's were classified. They would have been breaking the law. They wouldn't have been able to prosecute this level of criminal activity if they had revealed it. The administration would have skewered them- the entire focus would have been on how they revealed classified information, not on how the administration had broken the law. Look at how the administration is handling it right now. Their initial focus was on rooting out the whistle-blowers from the NSA and punishing them and their latest tactic is outright lying about their actions and how they interacted with congress regarding this issue.

This whole Spygate thing is not the fault of Democrats. The Bush Administration bears complete responsibility for this whole fiasco.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I, too, think the Green party is awesome. I think the key to going Green is to understand reality. Vote Green in your local elections where there is a chance of success and the ability to grow a political base. Hopefully, you'll be able to vote Green is some statewide elections. But vote Democrat in presidential, senatorial and (in most cases) house elections. I don't think that such a betrayal to one's principles.

A friend of mine actually ran on the Green ticket for a house seat in Dallas. She didn't win, some a*sshole Republican did.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by amber

So if I'm understanding correctly, you're having hope for and voting for a party that has repeatedly and for years not accomplished what you want them to, or what they promised, and in a lot of cases has not even tried to accomplish those things? You want to continue to get candidates in office who accomplish nothing? As long as they have the title "Democrat"?
Well, that's one philosophy, I guess.

Nope, that's not what I said. I'm not going to keep beating a dead horse ad nauseum. If you choose not to read my posts carefully then forget it.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I, too, think the Green party is awesome. I think the key to going Green is to understand reality. Vote Green in your local elections where there is a chance of success and the ability to grow a political base. Hopefully, you'll be able to vote Green is some statewide elections. But vote Democrat in presidential, senatorial and (in most cases) house elections. I don't think that such a betrayal to one's principles.

nicely put, and I agree 100%.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Look, I'm not ferociously defending anyone, however, I am very much in support of Democracy and I will hold out hope that everyone else out there is too. We are a 2 party system, as wonderful as it would be to be a multi-party system, it is still a pie in the sky dream that ain't gonna come to fruition any time soon. So we gotta work with what we got right? I believe it is not practical and/or pragmatic to vote for unviable candidates (especially in these troublesome times) when we need to get actual work done out there, in other words as beautiful a principal as "voting your conscious is" it is not helping the current situation in this country, it is only making it worse. See, principals are nothing if they don't get work done and I don't see parties like the Green party actually doing anything that is making a dent in the actual state of affairs or political climate in this country. And furthermore, if people continue to be swayed by the rhetoric that the Democratic party is just another Republican party in sheep's clothing then it will only serve to further polarize the country causing an even bigger rift for Dems who ARE trying to make a difference. Yes, the Democratic party is weak right now, but let's not give up on it, we need to work to make it stronger (I know that sounds cheesy but bear with me please)

Voting for Democrats is not helping the current situation, it is only keeping the situation the same.

The Democratic party is not "weak right now," it's been weak as far back as I can remember. It's only since 2000 that it's really become a joke of party.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

Green doesn't make a dent exactly because of people who have the mindset that Green doesn't make a dent, and therefore won't switch to Green. Also, it's not "rhetoric" that Dems are just repubs dressed up in sheeps clothing. Besides a few exceptions (and I mean a few) it's the truth. Both Dems and Pubs work for big money, the Dems just try to pretend they don't. (again, with a few exceptions) Even Boxer didn't vote against the Patriot Act, or the war, and she didn't say anything when Clinton used military force in Bosnia, nor has she spoken up about wire tapping. Those are just examples of Dem being lame, and supposedly one of our best Dems, too.

I think the losingest fight is not the Green's agenda, the losingest fight is thinking Democrats can be "turned around" or somehow swayed into being more liberal. That's the biggest farce of all. The Dems aren't "doing anything that is making a dent in the actual state of affairs or political climate in this country" either, and if you think they are, you're being fooled.

When you're on, YOU ARE ON.