New interview

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Sugar

Absolutely. But IMO hoping and wanting to be a commercial success isn't the same as being comercially driven . . . .

To me, it is the same thing. IMO, if he really wanted to do what the hell he wanted and the devil damn the rest of the world, he would have gone to a label that would have let him do that. His bravada during the day certainly suggested that was his mindset. Yet, he stayed with the big time label and remained there until they were totally disinterested in 2000 or so. When you stay with a big label, you have to make concessions to the commercial gods Therein lies my biggest problem with people saying LB is such a maverick, etc. It is pretty hard to be that and be with a big label, though the likes of Madonna did it with huge success. Of course, her popularity and proven gimmicks commanded her that option. Plus, I believe Madonna at some point owned her label (Maverick? ) - but I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Sugar

Giving credit to The Police would have been more appropriate.

Mind lapse - remind me again of this reference

Originally Posted by Sugar

No doubt, that REALLY bugged the crap outta Linds!

hey - she told him she'd follow him down till the sound of her voice would haunt him - NEVAH GET AWAY -- NEVEAH GET AWAY --- NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVEAH GET AWAY

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I don't think that's true. I do think that her persona feeds her career heavily, but it's always been Stevie's music at the core of her success, I believe. maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but it seems like you're saying it was image first, music second...when, in fact, I think it's exactly the opposite.

I think her music in its simple form (usually a piano demo until the mid 80's) was nothing to write home about, though the melody was pretty much there in raw form. But, it usually took a producer or session player to fill it out. A good example of this is the Gypsy piano demo and the Sara one. Those demos are a skeleton and production on each was immense and IMO brilliant. Granted, much of her own person is in the production, but it still took a talented player to set it. Then, her own talent (delivery, voice, mystery, etc. ) -- sold the final cut. But, in songs like After the Glitter Fades and L&L, the demos are pretty much the final cut, just with less music. So, she certainly can write a cool song and the music to set it to.

Did that make sense?

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think he would have loved to have had some quirky thing like "Come" be a huge multi platinum hit - it would be his way at thumbing his nose at his non mainstream becoming the mainstream, etc.

Isn't it interesting that La Nicks often claims she could not write a hit single to save her life - and, she really never has, other than Dreams, Sara, and Gypsy - the latter two heavily if not totally influenced by LB. I suppose Landlside became a hit, but 25 or so years after it was written.

But, it still remains that many if not most of her hit singles, by her own admission, were written, or heavily influenced, by someone else. The only one I can think of is E017, which she readily give WW credit for on the guitar riff, which rather makes that song.

In fact, I cannot think of any song that all her.

Note - she was the moving force behind many of them and, without her personage and voice (which are her talent) - they may have not been hits.

Finally - "Holiday Road" - which I suggest was quirky and could have been a hit, was on a movie soundtrack - go figure

GOS: quirky for a big part.
Come, Red Rover, Say Goodbye, GOS, GI-live, Murrow, Try For The Sun, SGCYM (can't be seen as commercially crafted is it?) It's just DOR and Steal Your heart away, maybe Miranda and Twist of Fate, but Shuffle Riff is quirky too. Come on. These songs are totally noncommercial of basic idea. Cradle is the album that is the most commercial album of LB. But it had the "zeitgeist" playing against him.

No, it's just the problem of the recordcompany that doesn't have the guts of taking a song that stands out from the regular **** on radio as a single. For SYW they could have picked Miranda, or even GOS, that- if I remember correctly- would have been on the double-album if it was finished the way it was initiated.

And I still can't believe that the acoustic Big Love was never put out as a single; that one could have reinforced interest in LB.

Still: I believe that being commercial is the same as having the guts to take chances. Radiofriendly popdrizzle of high quality is NEVER EVER been written by Lindsey Buckingham nor Stevie Nicks. They had someone else in the band who specialized in that.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think her music in its simple form (usually a piano demo until the mid 80's) was nothing to write home about, though the melody was pretty much there in raw form. But, it usually took a producer or session player to fill it out. A good example of this is the Gypsy piano demo and the Sara one. Those demos are a skeleton and production on each was immense and IMO brilliant. Granted, much of her own person is in the production, but it still took a talented player to set it. Then, her own talent (delivery, voice, mystery, etc. ) -- sold the final cut. But, in songs like After the Glitter Fades and L&L, the demos are pretty much the final cut, just with less music. So, she certainly can write a cool song and the music to set it to.

Did that make sense?

kinda sorta.

I think that her talent really shines in those demos that aren't worthy of writing home about. her ability to write great lyrics and form a great melody. I'm not sure there are many singer/songwriters that can produce such embellished music. that's why the majority of singer/songwriters are folksy (and I hate to stereotoype) and don't require such production as the Fleetwood Macs or The Eagles of the world do. there's no way that I couldn't/wouldn't love Rhiannon or Beauty and the Beast or Wild Heart just as much even if I'd never seen Stevie Nicks. but, I will admit, her whole image/persona takes her music to another stratosphere.

ok, I hereby ban myself from using "/" again for at least 24 hrs.

ETA: I HATE GRAMMAR ERRORS. I bolded what I corrected.

[Sugar]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think her music in its simple form (usually a piano demo until the mid 80's) was nothing to write home about, though the melody was pretty much there in raw form. But, it usually took a producer or session player to fill it out...Granted, much of her own person is in the production, but it still took a talented player to set it. Then, her own talent (delivery, voice, mystery, etc. ) -- sold the final cut. But, in songs like After the Glitter Fades and L&L, the demos are pretty much the final cut, just with less music. So, she certainly can write a cool song and the music to set it to.

This is a lot of it! I'm guessing that Strand's point (what I was referring to at first) was that it was ironic that, while Stevie's career was way more huge than Lindsey's, it wasn't really because she was a better songwriter than he was, which is what Lindsey was striving for. IMO it was her persona that set her apart and what really drew people to her.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

kinda sorta.

I think that her talent really shines in those demos that aren't worthing writing home about. her ability to write great lyrics and form a great melody. I'm not sure there are many singer/songwriters that can produce such embellished music. that's why the majority of singer/songwriters are folksy (and I hate to stereotoype) and don't require such production as the Fleetwood Mac or The Eagles of the world do. there's no way that I couldn't/wouldn't love Rhiannon or Beauty and the Beast or Wild Heart just as much even if I'd never seen Stevie Nicks. but, I will admit, her whole image/persona takes her music to another stratosphere.

ok, I hereby ban myself from using "/" again for at least 24 hrs.

36 hours

But and yes, her talent totally shines through like a super nova on those demos. But, IMO the production really enhances that. Look at GB in the IMO stellar and hearbreaking demo form and then the album cut, which is brilliant in its production, whicj she clearly was a part of. So, I agree with you that her talent is there. I just think it taked a producer to take it to the public as a commercially viable product, and that is where she can IMO get into trouble. But, it also works a la the final cut of B&B when compared to that awful R&B version lurking out there

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by Sugar

This is a lot of it! I'm guessing that Strand's point (what I was referring to at first) was that it was ironic that, while Stevie's career was way more huge than Lindsey's, it wasn't really because she was a better songwriter than he was, which is what Lindsey was striving for. IMO it was her persona that set her apart and what really drew people to her.

nope. I don't agree. no one's gonna argue that Lindsey isn't a great producer and that he helped Stevie get to where she is and create her signature sound or that he's not talented beyond belief as a guitarist, but I think Stevie's songwriting abilities far exceed Lindsey's. they are both amazing musicians, just in different ways. Lindsey's written some great songs...some amazing stuff even. there's a huge catalog of amazing songs he's written, but I don't think they compare to Stevie's catalog and the intensity therein. I think to say that Stevie's image is what made her and afforded her a solo career that swallowed Lindsey's is a gross misinterpretation.

my point:
amazing producer, guitarist - Lindsey
amazing songwriter, performer - Stevie

unfortunately for Lindsey, having the songwriting and performing talents are what make a successful artist moreso than an amazing producer and guitarist.

[Sugar]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

To me, it is the same thing. IMO, if he really wanted to do what the hell he wanted and the devil damn the rest of the world, he would have gone to a label that would have let him do that. His bravada during the day certainly suggested that was his mindset. Yet, he stayed with the big time label and remained there until they were totally disinterested in 2000 or so. When you stay with a big label, you have to make concessions to the commercial gods Therein lies my biggest problem with people saying LB is such a maverick, etc. It is pretty hard to be that and be with a big label, though the likes of Madonna did it with huge success. Of course, her popularity and proven gimmicks commanded her that option. Plus, I believe Madonna at some point owned her label (Maverick? ) - but I could be wrong.

I would never refer to Linds as "maverick." You're right, why not just start his own label or go to a smaller label? Too much work? Too much effort? IDK. But I certainly think he was married to his vision andwasn't always interested in doing what it too to sell the most (my definition of "comercially driven")

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Mind lapse - remind me again of this reference

the Police --Bring On The Night; same guitar, same beat. Beyond me why they didn't sue.

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

hey - she told him she'd follow him down till the sound of her voice would haunt him - NEVAH GET AWAY -- NEVEAH GET AWAY --- NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVEAH GET AWAY

She did not lie.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I just think it taked a producer to take it to the public as a commercially viable product, and that is where she can IMO get into trouble.

in 95% of Stevie's career, I think this is true.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Sugar

. . . it wasn't really because she was a better songwriter than he was . . . .

I have often thought about this. ISA is brilliant as are most of his lyrics. In fact, many of them are more complex than her lyrics. Yet, she is the venerated song writer. I think that is because her delivery of her lyrics (which can be awkward in written form) is without par. Also, much of her stuff stands as poetry on its own - e.g. GB, Rhiannon, TISL, GDW, Wild Heart - to name a few.

But, so do many of LB's - Go Insane stands out in particular to me.

So, I would put them on somewhat equal footing as writers. But, she takes the cake in the delivery department, which is what made her.

I mean CM is great. I LOVE her stuff. I think she is incredibly talented. But, she never ever sold it on stage. Thus, her star was never as bright. Before the CM'ers come to kill me -- I love her stuff. I am just saying that by her own admission, she related to the rythm section as opposed to fighting for the northern star.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

in 95% of Stevie's career, I think this is true.

I listen to some of her demos and think WHAT THE HELL WAS SHE THINKING POTU (album cut) is a great example.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I have often thought about this. ISA is brilliant as are most of his lyrics. In fact, many of them are more complex than her lyrics. Yet, she is the venerated song writer. I think that is because her delivery of her lyrics (which can be awkward in written form) is without par. Also, much of her stuff stands as poetry on its own - e.g. GB, Rhiannon, TISL, GDW, Wild Heart - to name a few.

But, so do many of LB's - Go Insane stands out in particular to me.

So, I would put them on somewhat equal footing as writers. But, she takes the cake in the delivery department, which is what made her.

I mean CM is great. I LOVE her stuff. I think she is incredibly talented. But, she never ever sold it on stage. Thus, her star was never as bright. Before the CM'ers come to kill me -- I love her stuff. I am just saying that by her own admission, she related to the rythm section as opposed to fighting for the northern star.

ok, now I kinda see where you're going with this. and you're right, Lindsey's lyrics can be really poetic and equally intense as Stevie's...sidenote: I wonder how much they influenced each others' writing styles...

still, I think that by the sheer fact that Stevie has written 10 times the amount of songs, all just as good as the next, that Lindsey has, puts her atop the songwriter category. granted, Stevie has amassed a nice quantity of clunkers that are just ewww-worthy, but overall her catalog is impressive. and I'm not arguing quantity over quality...I'm just sayin' -

[strandinthewind]

OMG



and (at 1:50)



MY WORD - how HOT was Sting

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

ok, now I kinda see where you're going with this.

still, I think that by the sheer fact that Stevie has written 10 times the amount of songs, all just as good as the next, that Lindsey has, puts her atop the songwriter category. granted, Stevie has amassed a nice quantity of clunkers that are just ewww-worthy, but overall her catalog is impressive. and I'm not arguing quantity over quality...I'm just sayin' -

I think that she likely is the better of the two because her stuff is more mysterious in that she rarely uses "I" -- so you have to think about the subject more.

I often wonder if she had a hand in the lyrics of ISA - they just sound so like her to me. Also, I am sure she influenced him back then as he did her. Oh to have been a fly on the wall.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

OMG

the similarities have always weirded me out. didn't Stevie say Waddy came up with the riff? and we all know Stevie's usual chord structure is usually start high in minor keys and progress to lower chords and then a variation of same. there's only a finite number of chord structures in the world...

oh, and yeah, Sting was and still is hawt. tantric mutha****a.