A Religious Leader Who Isn't An Idiot - Page 5

carrie721 · #61 06-21-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

What does god say about reading more carefully in order to spare others immense brain-blowing-fuse pain and cognitive dissonance?

*snort*

Yes, I think that can be found in the unpopular 11th commandment: Thou Shalt Not Reiterate.

amber · #62 06-21-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrie721

*snort*

Yes, I think that can be found in the unpopular 11th commandment: Thou Shalt Not Reiterate.

*snort* right back atcha.

Gosh, it's too bad "god" didn't say anything about overpopulation and managing our resources more wisely, that would have been a lot more handy right now than that procreation thing. I think we've pretty much got that one down.

DrummerDeanna · #63 06-21-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

*snort* right back atcha.

Gosh, it's too bad "god" didn't say anything about overpopulation and managing our resources more wisely, that would have been a lot more handy right now than that procreation thing. I think we've pretty much got that one down.

Seriously. Thou shalt not pillage, rape and ruin the beautiful planet I provided you with...or something to that effect.

carrie721 · #64 06-21-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

*snort* right back atcha.

Gosh, it's too bad "god" didn't say anything about overpopulation and managing our resources more wisely, that would have been a lot more handy right now than that procreation thing. I think we've pretty much got that one down.

That reminds me ... I just saw An Inconvenient Truth last night. Scary stuff. Clearly you & Al Gore are unfamiliar with the Twelfth Commandment: Thou Shalt Drive A Hummer, For It Be The Manifestation Of God's Beauty On Earth.

Johnny Stew · #65 06-21-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sahara

Sex is for procreation, not recreation.

When every Christian heterosexual couple ceases to have sex except in those times when they're legitimately trying to conceive a child, then we'll talk.

carrie721 · #66 06-21-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

When every Christian heterosexual couple ceases to have sex except in those times when they're legitimately trying to conceive a child, then we'll talk.

Word. I don't think God cares that much about what we do with our bodies, as long as nobody gets hurt (unless you're into that sort of thing!

).

Johnny Stew · #67 06-21-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Actually, it looks like you missed the realpoint which is God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve

Seriously though, if one more person says that and actually means it - I may have to be committed due to total and complete nervous breakdown.

I've found the best response to the ol' "Adam & Steve" crap. When someone brings it up, I always add, "yes, but don't forget that Adam & Eve only had two sons -- so who in that family slept with whom in order to propagate?"

Incest shuts 'em up everytime.

carrie721 · #68 06-21-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I've found the best response to the ol' "Adam & Steve" crap. When someone brings it up, I always add, "yes, but don't forget that Adam & Eve only had two sons -- so who in that family slept with whom in order to propagate?"

Incest shuts 'em up everytime.

omfg. That is hillllllarious.

strandinthewind · #69 06-21-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I've found the best response to the ol' "Adam & Steve" crap. When someone brings it up, I always add, "yes, but don't forget that Adam & Eve only had two sons -- so who in that family slept with whom in order to propagate?"

Incest shuts 'em up everytime.

Well, that is not exaclty the whole of it and it brings up the next, if you will, fallacy of creationism, which is in the following text:

Genesis 4 (KJV)

1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

_________________________________

When did Nod come into the picture and how was it populated?

As an aside - the use of the number seven is also a source of comment, to wit:

http://www.direct.ca/trinity/seven.html

Also -

Below is a list of numbers written in the Bible with their meanings.

Number Meaning
One Beginning, one
Two Witness, separation
Three The Trinity (Godhead)
Four Earth, creation, world
Five Grace, cross, atonement, life
Six Man, beast, Satan
Seven Perfection, completeness
Eight New beginning
Nine Completeness, finality, fulness
Ten Law, government, restoration
Eleven Incompleteness, disorganization, disintegration
Twelve Divine government, apostolic fulness
Thirteen Rebellion, backsliding, apostacy.
Fourteen Passover
Seventeen Spiritual order
Twenty-four Priestly courses; governmental perfection
Thirty Consecration; maturity for ministry
Forty Probation, testing, closing in victory or judgment
Fifty Pentecost, liberty, freedom, jubilee
Seventy Prior to increase
Seventy-five Separation, cleansing, purification
One hundred twenty End of all flesh, beginning life in the Spirit
One hundred forty-four God's ultimate in creation
One hundred fifty-three Revival, the elect
Three hundred Faithful remnant
Six hundred sixty-six Antichrist, Satan, the damned Triplicate 666

Johnny Stew · #70 06-21-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Hey, let's remember Sahara is just 16 and has been brought up in a strict religious atmosphere (because that's what Ireland is like). She seems like a nice person and may well change her mind about these things.

Absolutely. And I hope Sahara understands that we're not trying to attack her for her beliefs (at least I don't believe anyone is) -- we're simply opening up a dialogue on the subject. And dialogue, in my opinion, is always a good thing.

And even though I make jokes from time to time, I don't want to come across like I'm belittling anyone's beliefs. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who maintains their faith in the midst of this weary world (well, ok, "anyone" doesn't really cover followers of Xenu, but that's a different story

).

My only wish is that more people would realize that homosexuality (or the "practicing" of it) is not an abomination or a sin, and that the whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" stance is as damaging as anything.

One of my favorite sites, that I encourage everyone to visit, is Religious Tolerance.org. It doesn't bash any religious community for their beliefs, and it's not out to cause conflict and division. Its purpose is to enlighten and, just as the name says, foster religious tolerance.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #71 06-21-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I've found the best response to the ol' "Adam & Steve" crap. When someone brings it up, I always add, "yes, but don't forget that Adam & Eve only had two sons -- so who in that family slept with whom in order to propagate?"

Incest shuts 'em up everytime.

Funny.. that is exactly what I say too! Of course I know better.. after Adam and Eve were sent away from the garden to live on earth, as we know it.. the bible never says that they were then the only ones who existed. When Cain became an outlaw after killing his brother he ran away and it says he found a wife.. so obviously there were other tribes and human beings by this point.

Johnny Stew · #72 06-21-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, that is not exaclty the whole of it....

No, it's definitely a simplification on my part, but it causes people to stop and think -- where did everyone else "suddenly" come from.

DrummerDeanna · #73 06-21-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Absolutely. And I hope Sahara understands that we're not trying to attack her for her beliefs (at least I don't believe anyone is) -- we're simply opening up a dialogue on the subject. And dialogue, in my opinion, is always a good thing.

And even though I make jokes from time to time, I don't want to come across like I'm belittling anyone's beliefs. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who maintains their faith in the midst of this weary world (well, ok, "anyone" doesn't really cover followers of Xenu, but that's a different story

).

My only wish is that more people would realize that homosexuality (or the "practicing" of it) is not an abomination or a sin, and that the whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" stance is as damaging as anything.

One of my favorite sites, that I encourage everyone to visit, is Religious Tolerance.org. It doesn't bash any religious community for their beliefs, and it's not out to cause conflict and division. Its purpose is to enlighten and, just as the name says, foster religious tolerance.

Right...ditto that!

Also - I didn't realize Sahara was only 16 ...I generally assume others on here are older - heh...

My intent was most definitely not to attack - although I kind of felt like that's where things were heading - and it is very easy to feel attacked on here because there are several like-minded people...I've learned that lesson!

So Sahara - really nothing personal...

strandinthewind · #74 06-21-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Funny.. that is exactly what I say too! Of course I know better.. after Adam and Eve were sent away from the garden to live on earth, as we know it.. the bible never says that they were then the only ones who existed. When Cain became an outlaw after killing his brother he ran away and it says he found a wife.. so obviously there were other tribes and human beings by this point.

Interesting point. However, I think that it is incorrect because God went to great lengths to care for Adam and Eve and told them to be fruitful and multiply. So, I am pretty sure it was just them.

Also, many scholars question the omnipotence of God here when God has to question Eve. If God is all knowing and seeing, then He already knew, etc.

Genesis is IMO the most fascinating book in the OT.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #75 06-21-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Interesting point. However, I think that it is incorrect because God went to great lengths to care for Adam and Eve and told them to be fruitful and multiply. So, I am pretty sure it was just them.

I have no doubt it was just them while in the garden.. but after they were punished and sent to live on earth it is possible that others could have been created by God.. the only clue we really have to that is what I spoke of above when Cain ran away and found a wife.

Quote:

Also, many scholars question the omnipotence of God here when God has to question Eve. If God is all knowing and seeing, then He already knew, etc.

Who said he didn't already know? Looking at the way he questions her.. it seems that he already knew.. but was looking for honesty from her.. a chance for her to come clean, if you will..

Quote:

Genesis is IMO the most fascinating book in the OT.

I totally agree.. a very very interesting book. Most of the other OT books are quite long and full of old laws..

Ruth is pretty good however.. and I'm a sucker for any Pslam.. and Song of Songs is quite pornographic!