Madformac

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by dissention

I'm not Krista, but at one point, there were around 40 threads solely about those Vegas shows. Greg even counted them. I suggested merging them to tidy the board up, but was shot down. Now, there's thread after thread about Stevie's father. Why, I've no clue, when one or two would suffice. I think it's just a matter of it being difficult to wade through the board with so many threads about the exact same thing. JMO.

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

But at the same time it's also difficult to go wade through a thread that is 6+ pages long. I'm just sayin'

Of course, everyone could just not post and then we wouldn't have anything to worry about...

I like reading people's opinions. If I don't feel like slogging through a thread, I'll either skip it or maybe skim through it to see if there's anything of merit there. I like it when there's lots of debate and things get heated- that's what makes this place fun. If I wanted to read a sycophant board, I'd probably go somewhere else. Seriously, could you imagine how ridiculous this place would be if the threads read like this?:

"Did you see Stevie- wasn't she great?"
"Yeah, I loved her."
"Me too, I love her."
"Stevie RAWKS!"
"Long live the Goddess!"

and on, and on, and on..... If you want to see this type of board in action, go read the Heart Music board at the official site. It's the biggest yawn ever. No discourse, no commentary, no nothing.

Sometimes things get out of hand. I thought the whole Brown Eye era with 1/2 Insane around here was pretty bad. I don't like to see people start to feel bad about themselves because of specific things posted that only occur here. While I could give a **** about those two idiots, some of the personal things they said to specific people were not cool.

If someone can't handle it if Stevie or Lindsey or any artist gets dressed down, then they really need to take some inventory and reassess just how important these kinds of discussions are to one's life. If one is boo-hoo'ing because someone said Stevie looked fat or sounded croaky, perhaps one might want to take a step back.

I, for one, love the concept of trying to challenge Stevie and her fans to consistently demand great product and great performances from her. Her personal life? Meh. Don't really care about that.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I was thinking that she meant it's too much to dig through, as Josh said.

Oh, Krista, I'm sorry that I replied when you had already explained!

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Sometimes things get out of hand. I thought the whole Brown Eye era with 1/2 Insane around here was pretty bad. I don't like to see people start to feel bad about themselves because of specific things posted that only occur here. While I could give a **** about those two idiots, some of the personal things they said to specific people were not cool.

That was a pretty aggravating time, though I've found that for me it's more painful when people that I really do care about on this board wind up in some huge fight that is usually a misunderstanding of some sort and then people can't take back what they've said, etc. Those two were sometimes just plain mean and it was hard to take them seriously.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by David

Even now, in this very thread, people are complaining about the "negativity" & I don't know for sure what they're talking about: are they talking about personal attacks? or about negative opinions about the subject(s) of the board?

I shouldn't speak for others so I'll say that I am talking about the personal attacks when I say "negativity." I certainly don't think there should be a rule against critcizing the band or its members. And I think there should be a way for people to respectfully disagree with one another's comments without chaos ensuing.

[DrummerDeanna]

I was just stating that it's hard to go through a long-ass thread - that's it. I also think it's ridiculous to have 9837473 threads about the same thing

All in all - I find the Ledge enjoyable- I don't get deterred from the long threads - as Tower said - if I don't feel like slogging through a thread I won't

I also agree that it would be boring as hell is everyone agreed all the time.

What i have/had a problem with is more what tower referred to - the BrownEyes/1/2 Insane phase...

There seemed to be a period there where we had a higher than usual troll count - that got really old and pretty depressing.

[madformac]

Whoooow... Where do I start?!?!?!

OK. I'll start at the top and go from there.

David. Thankyou for starting a thread in my honour.. I'm surprised anybody really noticed me missing actually.. But anyway, the reason I'm replying to this is out of courtesy and respect for some of the Ledgie "old school" if you will. I had planned to slip away quietly, a dawn departure if you like but alas, with David's thread I feel a need to speak up and clarify my leaving.

David, Sharon, Hillary, Christy, Deanna, Krista, Romy, Michele, Amber, Gerald and all the others I've not mentioned that have expressed goodwill. Thanks for your thoughts.

The truth of the matter is it's been a long time coming anyway. In my relative four years here I can honestly say I've had a lot of fun and achieved things I probably wouldn't have done without the Ledge. It was ChiliD's fault I came here in the first place. Having spotted me as Fleetwood Mac fan on another site he suggested I come here and hang out. It's been a while now to say the least! Because of The Ledge I've made some very close and lifelong friends, I've met Peter Green.. Twice... Kinda met Lindsey and played his Turner Chatted online with Bob Welch, Mick Fleetwood, Ken Calliat and others. I've seen some cool Ledgies come and go (CarneVaca springs to mind, and where is BellaDonnaGypsy these days?) and I've seen some unsavory characters depart (Well ArizonaRanger anyway). So it's been good and I thank Marty and Lis for everything they have done and continue to do with the best, and let's face it, the REAL official Fleetwood Mac site. I'm sure it will continue to grow and thrive.

But lately there has been an undercurrent. Its nobody's fault and it happens when any community increases its population drastically in a short space of time. What I'm talking about is respect for people. There has always been and always will be the odd squabble or difference of opinions. It happens. Most of the time it's good for debate and it's healthy interaction. Lately there have been an awful lot of issues where individuals have been personally attacked for their views. I'm sure most substantial posters here will have been name called or attacked at some point. Some of it is just having fun, but some is not, there is a line to be drawn. It's easy to take a cheap shot on a public forum. You will never meet the person in question, you will never look them in the eye, face them off. I think it's important for me to stress that I don't really get "hurt" or "offended" but I do get sick and tired of consistently reading posts with venom directed at individuals. I'm not blaming the moderators. They do a great job, something I wouldn't have the patience to do, but I would hate to see the boards go the way of the official Pink Floyd forum and get closed because of constant personal attacks and even threats resulting in legal action.

For me the thread in question that I posted on in the Stevie Nicks forum was indeed the final straw. I would admit my phrasing was probably a little strong given the circumstances, however given my experience of reading various Stevie Nicks threads where things have totally lost a grip on reality and entered the realms of self delusion, I sensed the same thing could happen here and given the nature of the thread I didn't want that to be the case. For the benefit of doubt, I'm going to say that the use of the word "forum" instead of "thread" by the thread starter was misinterpreted by myself. It was sort of clarified that it's use was a mistake later in the thread by which time I had been personally attacked by the same poster. Had it been clarified with an apology and said in a considered way I would have probably accepted and reciprocated, as is the way sometimes, but that didn't happen. I'm not going to name names or retaliate, it's not been my way in the past and I'm not going to start now. I respected the wishes of the person in question not to post on the thread and indeed got the reply I had expected anyway. I didn't have a "hissy fit" as The Tower so eloqently described it. I decided that to back away from the thread was the correct thing to do in the circumstances and to avoid further conflict. I do have thoughts about what was said but I'm not going to print them here.

As for me being "cold" and maybe not having any sympathy for the family of the deceased, well, my father was overdosed in hospital by a nurse and died right in front of my eyes within the hour at the age of 58. If that wasn't enough I had to be interviewed by the Police in case of it being a murder scene. There was a public enquiry, the nurse was transferred to another hospital and promoted as punishment.... I'm not looking for sympathy here, the only reason I pointed that out is to give you a little bit of an insight into my personal life which is something I don't talk about online. We all have things we have to deal with. Brian shared his loss and we have all tried to support him the best we can in our small way. I keep mine private. It's probably easier to make assumptions about somebody online when you don't know about thier personal lives. We are all different. Christy shares her life events and becuase of it we maybe feel we know her better than other Ledgies.

So the response to my post was typical of the sentiment I've felt recently. I expect some of the same in response to this but I felt I owed it to some of you to say goodbye properly given that my absence was mentioned.

I will read the boards from time to time, interestingly within hours of my final post my I.P Address was blocked from this site, I couldn't even read it until I changed my address. I would love to know how or why or who did it but it may remain a mystery to me (no pun intended).

So I'm off.. It's been a good ride but I think it's time for me to bow out now. If anybody wants me to answer a question I'll stay active on this thread only for a short time. Also if anybody wants to stay in touch then please PM me your email addy.

Thanks and goodbye all.

JB.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I was just stating that it's hard to go through a long-ass thread - that's it. I also think it's ridiculous to have 9837473 threads about the same thing

All in all - I find the Ledge enjoyable- I don't get deterred from the long threads - as Tower said - if I don't feel like slogging through a thread I won't

I also agree that it would be boring as hell is everyone agreed all the time.

What i have/had a problem with is more what tower referred to - the BrownEyes/1/2 Insane phase...

There seemed to be a period there where we had a higher than usual troll count - that got really old and pretty depressing.

I totally agree, negative as positive opinions if respectfully expressed are equally interesting, IMO. It's when people get nasty just for the sake of a moment of visibility that I lose interest, but it happens in real life so it's normal to see it happening from time to time also on a message board.

About the multiplication of threads on Vegas gigs or Stevie's dad, I've noticed that generally an 'event' brings a lot of lurkers or new members to post, and it seems to me to start a thread is most commonly their way to be sure to be read. I don't see a big harm in that.

Romy

[dissention]

Originally Posted by madformac

Thanks and goodbye all.

Hopefully you come and jump back in eventually, you were an asset to the board (your knowledge of guitars, etc.) and have a fun sense of humor.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by madformac

Whoooow... Where do I start?!?!?!

OK. I'll start at the top and go from there.

David. Thankyou for starting a thread in my honour.. I'm surprised anybody really noticed me missing actually.. But anyway, the reason I'm replying to this is out of courtesy and respect for some of the Ledgie "old school" if you will. I had planned to slip away quietly, a dawn departure if you like but alas, with David's thread I feel a need to speak up and clarify my leaving.

David, Sharon, Hillary, Christy, Deanna, Krista, Romy, Michele, Amber, Gerald and all the others I've not mentioned that have expressed goodwill. Thanks for your thoughts.

The truth of the matter is it's been a long time coming anyway. In my relative four years here I can honestly say I've had a lot of fun and achieved things I probably wouldn't have done without the Ledge. It was ChiliD's fault I came here in the first place. Having spotted me as Fleetwood Mac fan on another site he suggested I come here and hang out. It's been a while now to say the least! Because of The Ledge I've made some very close and lifelong friends, I've met Peter Green.. Twice... Kinda met Lindsey and played his Turner Chatted online with Bob Welch, Mick Fleetwood, Ken Calliat and others. I've seen some cool Ledgies come and go (CarneVaca springs to mind, and where is BellaDonnaGypsy these days?) and I've seen some unsavory characters depart (Well ArizonaRanger anyway). So it's been good and I thank Marty and Lis for everything they have done and continue to do with the best, and let's face it, the REAL official Fleetwood Mac site. I'm sure it will continue to grow and thrive.

But lately there has been an undercurrent. Its nobody's fault and it happens when any community increases its population drastically in a short space of time. What I'm talking about is respect for people. There has always been and always will be the odd squabble or difference of opinions. It happens. Most of the time it's good for debate and it's healthy interaction. Lately there have been an awful lot of issues where individuals have been personally attacked for their views. I'm sure most substantial posters here will have been name called or attacked at some point. Some of it is just having fun, but some is not, there is a line to be drawn. It's easy to take a cheap shot on a public forum. You will never meet the person in question, you will never look them in the eye, face them off. I think it's important for me to stress that I don't really get "hurt" or "offended" but I do get sick and tired of consistently reading posts with venom directed at individuals. I'm not blaming the moderators. They do a great job, something I wouldn't have the patience to do, but I would hate to see the boards go the way of the official Pink Floyd forum and get closed because of constant personal attacks and even threats resulting in legal action.

For me the thread in question that I posted on in the Stevie Nicks forum was indeed the final straw. I would admit my phrasing was probably a little strong given the circumstances, however given my experience of reading various Stevie Nicks threads where things have totally lost a grip on reality and entered the realms of self delusion, I sensed the same thing could happen here and given the nature of the thread I didn't want that to be the case. For the benefit of doubt, I'm going to say that the use of the word "forum" instead of "thread" by the thread starter was misinterpreted by myself. It was sort of clarified that it's use was a mistake later in the thread by which time I had been personally attacked by the same poster. Had it been clarified with an apology and said in a considered way I would have probably accepted and reciprocated, as is the way sometimes, but that didn't happen. I'm not going to name names or retaliate, it's not been my way in the past and I'm not going to start now. I respected the wishes of the person in question not to post on the thread and indeed got the reply I had expected anyway. I didn't have a "hissy fit" as The Tower so eloqently described it. I decided that to back away from the thread was the correct thing to do in the circumstances and to avoid further conflict. I do have thoughts about what was said but I'm not going to print them here.

As for me being "cold" and maybe not having any sympathy for the family of the deceased, well, my father was overdosed in hospital by a nurse and died right in front of my eyes within the hour at the age of 58. If that wasn't enough I had to be interviewed by the Police in case of it being a murder scene. There was a public enquiry, the nurse was transferred to another hospital and promoted as punishment.... I'm not looking for sympathy here, the only reason I pointed that out is to give you a little bit of an insight into my personal life which is something I don't talk about online. We all have things we have to deal with. Brian shared his loss and we have all tried to support him the best we can in our small way. I keep mine private. It's probably easier to make assumptions about somebody online when you don't know about thier personal lives. We are all different. Christy shares her life events and becuase of it we maybe feel we know her better than other Ledgies.

So the response to my post was typical of the sentiment I've felt recently. I expect some of the same in response to this but I felt I owed it to some of you to say goodbye properly given that my absence was mentioned.

I will read the boards from time to time, interestingly within hours of my final post my I.P Address was blocked from this site, I couldn't even read it until I changed my address. I would love to know how or why or who did it but it may remain a mystery to me (no pun intended).

So I'm off.. It's been a good ride but I think it's time for me to bow out now. If anybody wants me to answer a question I'll stay active on this thread only for a short time. Also if anybody wants to stay in touch then please PM me your email addy.

Thanks and goodbye all.

JB.

Thanks for your post, it helped me to understand better the situation. You've obviously pondered this decision but I'll keep hoping sometime in the future you'll decide to bring your wit and reasoning to the Ledge again.

Romy

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by dissention

Hopefully you come and jump back in eventually, you were an asset to the board (your knowledge of guitars, etc.) and have a fun sense of humor.

I absolutely agree.

Originally Posted by madformac

I didn't have a "hissy fit" as The Tower so eloqently described it. I decided that to back away from the thread was the correct thing to do in the circumstances and to avoid further conflict.

It just seemed to me that there was a very quick "snap" at the time and your "this may be the last time I post here" thing seemed very directly tied to the back and forth that went on in that thread. Yes, I know I can be a drama queen- hissy fit was just my way of describing it.

It's a shame to see a contributor such as you voluntarily leave. For awhile there you were the Official Straight Guy On The Ledge- all the ladies are going to miss you. If the whole of the board isn't jiving for you I can understand- I just hope it isn't a few squabbles that would change your overall perspective.

I hope this is just a lull- see you around.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I think the negativity started a few years ago, and because the monster was fed, it just kept growing and spawning.

And anytime someone said something about it, they'd get belittled and admonished. Told to "put up or shut up."
Many of those on the receiving end of that have since moved on from the Ledge, while the negativity and aggression continued to build here.

Unfortunately, I let myself get sucked into those arguments far too often as well, and played far too large of a role in them.

Hopefully we can swing things back the other way again.

yeppers and it's unfortunate. I have been really really close to leaving a time or two. Did once and regretted it for a long time. But I just choose which threads to give my energy to and which ones aren't worth the time. There are times when I just can't NOT respond to something I find offensive or stupid...that's just me, but after that I try to leave the thread alone or avoid it completely. I think there are lots of people here who are assholes and just post for the sake of stirring the cow poo, but you gotta try to overlook them and go on. I try to say my piece and move forward.

[trackaghost]

Well I'm sad to see you go MFM.
I have to say the Stevie forum definitely is the craziest that's for sure, I think that's why I've taken refuge in the relative calm of the Lindsey and Christine forums. It gets very weird when newbies are telling someone like Nancy she's not a fan, because she dares criticise Stevie.

But anyway, I've wandered off the point. I do hope you'll come back. I once stormed off The Ledge after an argument with Gaius, and I was back after a month, but mine definitely was a hissy fit!

[madformac]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I absolutely agree.

Thanks fellas. Who knows how life will pan out.. Wasn't it Lindsey that said say we'll meet again?

Originally Posted by The Tower

It just seemed to me that there was a very quick "snap" at the time and your "this may be the last time I post here" thing seemed very directly tied to the back and forth that went on in that thread. Yes, I know I can be a drama queen- hissy fit was just my way of describing it.

Reading it in retrospect it might have appeared directly linked to that thread although it wasn't. Another Ledgie hinted it on the very same thread. I would have posted a proper farewell but didn't want to go out dramatically although it's turning that way now.

Originally Posted by The Tower

It's a shame to see a contributor such as you voluntarily leave. For awhile there you were the Official Straight Guy On The Ledge- all the ladies are going to miss you. If the whole of the board isn't jiving for you I can understand- I just hope it isn't a few squabbles that would change your overall perspective.

Ahh yes. Brian and ChiliD are married. Seteca rarely posts now and I'm off to pastures new.. Sorry Ladies, and there are some very nice ladies here too.. I'm leaving you all in the capable hands of good ol' Gerald... I know he's not wrong ( ) when it comes to giving advice to the ladies so listen to his words of advice.. I can handle squabbles. I just don't want to come home from work and relax by watching unnecessary personal stuff on my screen. It's a choice I've taken.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by madformac

It was ChiliD's fault I came here in the first place.

"fault"?!? I never considered the suggestion you come to this place a "fault" ...considering how you thrived here for all that time. I think you were (uh...what's with the past-tense, chili?)...ARE a major asset to the Ledges.

I know we'll keep in touch outside of here; but, just to let you know publicly from the standpoint of a fellow Ledgie, I hope that you will consider your departure more of an open-ended "leave of absence", than as a full on permanent departure.

And, ya know...there's always that "other board" where you started out, to go back to.

[amber]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

But anyway, I've wandered off the point. I do hope you'll come back. I once stormed off The Ledge after an argument with Gaius, and I was back after a month, but mine definitely was a hissy fit!

MFM - you already know how much I love you. Hope everything works out, and we all get to see you again. Of course!