Kerry files FEC complaint against critical veterans group

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Was his former occupation a valet

No, they were making a crack about Mexicans and blacks being valets and doing menial jobs.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree - I just do not know if the vast majority of Amercians can or will make that distinction

Because they're irresponsible and lazy.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do - but I like to watch them all. The only one I really cannot watch at all is Hannity because I think he is unintelligent. I can take someone having a different opinion, but I do not suffer fools very well, esp. when they are just shouting idiotic things.

The words "carnival barker" come to mind.

[irishgrl]

Bob Dole has no point and the Viagra has obviously taken a toll on his mental stability. What he's saying is that because there is a good number of vets who are speaking out against Kerry, some of what they're saying must be true. What horse****. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. I can spek out with 100 other people at my side that George Bush used to shoot heroin, but that doesn't make any of it true.

(in Bush's case, who knows?)
I laffed out loud about the Dole/Viagra comment! BUT I think Dole is perceived as credible and many people may swallow whole what he says just because it is Dole saying it.

I myself have no problem with Kerry denouncing the Vietnam war and yet pointing to his service there. He DID serve there! that doesnt mean he agreed with WHY we were there...I thought most people had gotten to the point where we realized Vietnam was a mistake? My brother just barely escaped Vietnam having been injured on leave awaiting his shipping out papers...I can remember that the whole family was scared to death because most everyone knew you wouldnt be coming back whole, or alive. There was an INCREDIBLE loss of life in that war. and for what? To establish a foothold? To stem the awful red menace? Didnt happen. Asia is too vast, and 180 degrees away from our way of thinking, always has been. Vietnam was a classic case of the US blundering in without thinking and then not knowing how to get the heck OUT! (HOLY MOLY BATMAN, What do we do now?)

about news sources: I get Reuters emailed to me, but I will check out your recommendation Dissention. (EDIT: I went to pluck.com but I dont have windows OS, I use a Mac, so I cant download it, dang!)
Jason, about most of the major news sources using the same basic story, I agree that this is probably true, but the one thing that kept going thru my mind when you mentioned FOX news and CNN using the same feed, and therefore broadcasting the same story, I dont see it that way. FOX has a definite spin (Rupert Murdoch is an unabashed conservative, and his outlets reflect that) on how they present the news, whereas I think CNN is more neutral (out of all the major broadcasters that is)

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

The words "carnival barker" come to mind.

Oh you funny funny girl

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Oh you funny funny girl

It's the Celt in me.

[irishgrl]

It's the Celt in me.

HEY NOW!

[irishgrl]

Politics - AP
[AP]
Unit's Report Supports Kerry's Version

By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - The Navy task force overseeing John Kerry 's swift boat squadron in Vietnam reported that his group of boats came under enemy fire during a March 13, 1969, incident that three decades later is being challenged by the Democratic presidential nominee's critics.

The March 18, 1969, weekly report from Task Force 115, which was located by The Associated Press during a search of Navy archives, is the latest document to surface that supports Kerry's description of an event for which he won a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

The Task Force report twice mentions the incident five days earlier and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.

Task Force 115 was commanded at the time by retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the founder of the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which has been running ads challenging Kerry's account of the episode.

A member of the group, Larry Thurlow, said Tuesday he stood by his assertion that there was no enemy fire that day. Thurlow, the commander of another boat who also won a Bronze Star, said task force commanders probably relied on the initial report of the incident. Thurlow says Kerry wrote that report.

The document, part of thousands of pages of records housed at the Naval Historical Center, is one of several that say Kerry and other servicemen were shot at from the banks of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. The Associated Press located the document Tuesday during a search of available records.

Earlier this month, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth aired a television ad claiming Kerry lied about the circumstances surrounding his medals. Several members of the group who were aboard nearby boats that March 13 said in the ad and in affidavits that there was no enemy gunfire during the incident.

The anti-Kerry group has not produced any official Navy documents supporting that claim, however. The man Kerry rescued, Jim Rassmann, and the crew of Kerry's boat all say there was gunfire from both banks of the river at the time.

Meanwhile, Benjamin Ginsberg, a lawyer for the Bush campaign, acknowledged Tuesday that he has given legal advice to the anti-Kerry group. Ginsberg said he never told the Bush campaign what he discussed with the group or vice versa, and doesn't advise the group on ad strategies.

The Kerry campaign has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission accusing the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of illegally coordinating the group's ads. The Bush campaign and the veterans group say there was no coordination.
Kerry is the subject of complaints by the Bush campaign and the Republican National Committee accusing his campaign of illegally coordinating anti-Bush ads with outside groups on the Democratic side, allegations he and the groups deny.

Kerry has denounced the assertions from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth as lies made as part of a Republican smear campaign. Most of the group's members and early financial backers are Republicans and one member who appeared in an ad, Ken Cordier, was a volunteer member of the Bush campaign. The campaign cut its ties with Cordier last week.

President Bush has said his campaign had nothing to do with the veterans group and said all such advertising by outside groups should cease. An anti-Bush group has run television ads saying Bush shirked his duty in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam war.

Kerry highlighted his Vietnam service during the Democratic convention last month, recounting the March 13 incident and having Rassmann join him on stage.

On that day in 1969, Kerry's PCF-94 was part of a five-boat group heading downriver. An underwater mine exploded underneath another boat, PCF-3, injuring its entire crew. Kerry's boat was then hit by another explosion that knocked Rassmann, an Army Green Beret, into the water. Kerry hurt his right arm in the explosion.

Kerry turned his boat around to rescue Rassmann, pulling the soldier into the boat with his injured right arm, while the other boats rushed to help PCF-3. All the official Navy reports on the incident say the boats were under heavy fire from the riverbanks at the time. Those records include the official after-action report, citations for Bronze Stars awarded for heroism that day and now the Task Force 115 report.

The weekly report cites the incident twice, referring to its code name of Sea Lords 358. The first reference says the boats "encountered an enemy initiated firefight with water mines and automatic weapons fire." The second reference also mentions "an enemy initiated firefight ... with water mines and automatic weapons."

Thurlow, the commander of another swift boat who won a Bronze Star for helping the crew of PCF-3, insists there was no enemy gunfire during the incident. The citation and recommendation for Thurlow's Bronze Star, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, also mention enemy fire, however.

Thurlow's medal recommendation, for example, says he helped the PCF-3 crew "under constant enemy small arms fire." That recommendation is signed by George Elliott, another member of the anti-Kerry group. It lists as the only witness for the incident Robert Eugene Lambert, an enlisted man who was not on Kerry's boat who also won the Bronze Star that day.

Thurlow stood by his claim that there was no gunfire that day and said his Bronze Star documents were wrong.

Kerry's campaign has released copies of the after-action report and Kerry's Bronze Star nomination and citation for the incident, but not the weekly report.

[irishgrl]

good grief, what an ASS!

Thurlow, the commander of another swift boat who won a Bronze Star for helping the crew of PCF-3, insists there was no enemy gunfire during the incident. The citation and recommendation for Thurlow's Bronze Star, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, also mention enemy fire, however. Thurlow's medal recommendation, for example, says he helped the PCF-3 crew "under constant enemy small arms fire." That recommendation is signed by George Elliott, another member of the anti-Kerry group. It lists as the only witness for the incident Robert Eugene Lambert, an enlisted man who was not on Kerry's boat who also won the Bronze Star that day.

Thurlow stood by his claim that there was no gunfire that day and said his Bronze Star documents were wrong.

Why the heck didnt he turn HIS medal in? or refuse it in the first place?
GAH!

and this:

The March 18, 1969, weekly report from Task Force 115, which was located by The Associated Press during a search of Navy archives, is the latest document to surface that supports Kerry's description of an event for which he won a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

The Task Force report twice mentions the incident five days earlier and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.

Task Force 115 was commanded at the time by retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the founder of the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which has been running ads challenging Kerry's account of the episode.

So, the commander of the Task Force is now discounting HIS OWN report? WHAT is this man getting PAID? Judas got 13 pieces of silver...I bet Roy Hoffman is getting much MUCH more (what a disgusting human being)

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

good grief, what an ASS!


Why the heck didnt he turn HIS medal in? or refuse it in the first place?
GAH!

Thurlow also said last week that if he received the bronze star for being under enemy fire, he wants to return it.

[irishgrl]

So Mr. holier-than-thou didn't know what he got his medal for? Bruh-ther! by all means, SOLDIER, turn yer medal in! Better yet, give it to KERRY!
this whole thing is such an obvious ploy, I am surprised people are even buying into it! and the whole "get Nader on the ballot to split the Democratic vote" scheme is pathetic...
If anyone truly wanted their vote to count, they would realize that any of those "third party" candidates are just vote wasters....even tho they may be very deserving...(its a shame really, but this Nation is STILL in reality, a TWO PARTY system. The other parties are just so much window dressing...)