Producer for a new album

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by dissention

But some people just won't recognize a bad song when they hear one.

Family Man, Greta, etc.

- Jake

[amber]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Family Man, Greta, etc.

- Jake

Greta grew on me. I had to get her lanced. (to preclude your joke)
Amber

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Family Man, Greta, etc.

- Jake

I don't think these are the greatest songs ever written, but I still like them. I guess some people can make that seperation and others can't.

But that's what makes us all so unique and speshul.....

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by amber

Greta grew on me. I had to get her lanced. (to preclude your joke)
Amber

"Another lady, another time
Another heartbroken state of mind
Alone in her chamber she dreams of her home

Outside!
She's got a movie star view....."

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

I don't think these are the greatest songs ever written, but I still like them. I guess some people can make that seperation and others can't.

But that's what makes us all so unique and speshul.....

Actually, I don't hate them (just making a point to our friend). I just think they're about the weakest songs these folks have released. (For Stevie, Alice and Affairs Of The Heart are worse than Greta, IMO, and I know this is an unusual opinion in addition to "speshul."

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

"Another lady, another time
Another heartbroken state of mind
Alone in her chamber she dreams of her home

Outside!
She's got a movie star view....."

When the album came out my then-girlfriend thought the movie star line was hilarious.

- Jake

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Actually, I don't hate them (just making a point to our friend). I just think they're about the weakest songs these folks have released. (For Stevie, Alice and Affairs Of The Heart are worse than Greta, IMO, and I know this is an unusual opinion in addition to "speshul."

- Jake

Exactly.

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

When the album came out my then-girlfriend thought the movie star line was hilarious.

- Jake

(...and you promptly broke up with her for poking fun, right?!)

I love the way she sings that line!

[snwriter]

Dear Dissention:

I don't think it's career suicide for an artist to record other people's songs, everyone does from time to time. Also, Stevie recorded MANY of her own songs during this period also.

I love Debbie Harry more than most people, but she had years where she was inactive musically and turned mostly to acting and she NEVER has toured as much as Stevie.

Tina Turner is a great performer but she has never written a song in her life. Patti Labelle is not a rocker, she and Stevie inhabit totally different worlds of entertainment.

Comparing Cher, foremost a personality and certainly not a rocker, is like comparing apples to oranges. Her shows are not rock shows.

Stevie can only bow to Joni Mitchell (who she has acknowledged) and who is THE original female singer/songwriter, but even JOni never did rock shows--it's always been either her and her guitar or her with a "jazzy" ensemble.

And Janis Joplin--who had a very short career and who didn't write many songs.

Stevie has always and still does rock more than any woman and more than most men, despite a few years of semi-mediocrity. Give the woman a break.

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

(...and you promptly broke up with her for poking fun, right?!)

I love the way she sings that line!

If it were a song I loved, I would have.
Hey, I broke up with someone less than two weeks ago over spending money on the Houston show. (She thought it was a "waste" but still expected to go. B'bye. )

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

Originally Posted by snwriter

Dear Dissention:

I don't think it's career suicide for an artist to record other people's songs, everyone does from time to time. Also, Stevie recorded MANY of her own songs during this period also.

I love Debbie Harry more than most people, but she had years where she was inactive musically and turned mostly to acting and she NEVER has toured as much as Stevie.

Tina Turner is a great performer but she has never written a song in her life. Patti Labelle is not a rocker, she and Stevie inhabit totally different worlds of entertainment.

Comparing Cher, foremost a personality and certainly not a rocker, is like comparing apples to oranges. Her shows are not rock shows.

Stevie can only bow to Joni Mitchell (who she has acknowledged) and who is THE original female singer/songwriter, but even JOni never did rock shows--it's always been either her and her guitar or her with a "jazzy" ensemble.

And Janis Joplin--who had a very short career and who didn't write many songs.

Stevie has always and still does rock more than any woman and more than most men, despite a few years of semi-mediocrity. Give the woman a break.

I'll add that while I love Janis especially, Stevie's music covers a wider variety of great sounds than any of these women's, IMO. And the facts that she writes and has an ear for choosing some great songs by others are a testament to her talent. Again, JMO.

- Jake

- Jake

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

If it were a song I loved, I would have.
Hey, I broke up with someone less than two weeks ago over spending money on the Houston show. (She thought it was a "waste" but still expected to go. B'bye. )

- Jake

Now that's my kinda man!

I love it!

[Bella Figura]

Personally, I really enjoy Stevie's solo outings and you'll find me much more often listening to a Stevie Nicks album then a FM album. what does production really mean anyway...an albums sound is based on a variety of factors such as place, time, where the artists head is at, where the producers head is at and the bridge between them. So production ends up being a very subjective thing...and I like the production on most of Stevie's albums except TOSOTM but despite the "sound", it's still one of my favorite albums.

as for Stevie's relevance to the rock and roll community, even prior to the Dance, Enchanted, TISL, Behind the Music, the upswing in tour attendance for Enchanted and TISL...Stevie's industry image was already being turned around by references made by some young hot musicians at the time which include Sheryl Crow, Courtney Love and Billy Corgan. both Courtney and Bill covered Stevie's FM tunes prior to her "comeback". and yes, the Dance did quite successfully bring Stevie back to the stardom elevation she had previously enjoyed. it was a smart move for her careerwise, after all she is one of the few solo artists with a concurrent successful band career as well.

and there is nothing wrong with a comeback, Cher has been doing it for years...Tina is on hiatus (or has she retired?), Patti has not had a record on the charts in decades but still packs them in (Stevie may not chart high any longer but Sorcerer was on the charts and POTU was #1 on the Dance Charts for a week...not bad for a hasbeen and let's mention Dixie Chick's Landslide and Beyonce's Bootylicious) and Debbie Harry, god bless her, keeps rocking on but her career has very much pararalled Stevie's with it's highs and lows. and let's not forget Pat Benatar, Heart and Chrissie Hynde who also keep going despite the "hasbeen, she's finished" moniker and thanks to a new generation of female (and the male too!!) artists who acknowledge a debt of gratitude to these pioneers of women's rock...and thanks to us longtime fans (the fans who stuck it out during the klonopin years, Street Angel, Sometimes it's a Bitch, bad concerts, the twinkie years and even in those years were able to love her songs) who do not forget how much Stevie's music means to our lives, she continues to enjoy renewed and deserved success...

will she or her music make it into history, perhaps at most as a mention or footnote but frankly I don't care because I won't be around, I can only enjoy her music now (especially the stuff that won't ever have commercial success, it's like having a special secret that no one else gets except us Ledgies)...and speaking of musical history, two of the biggest comebacks of the hasbeen were Elvis and his 68/69?? television special and John Lennon with Double Fantasy after a five year hiatus.

wow, this is the most I've written in months

[dissention]

Originally Posted by darklinensuit

Family Man, Greta, etc.

- Jake

I love Greta.

Family Man has terrible lyrics and the distorted vocals are a bit much (can we say Popeye?), but the music rocks.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

Just my 2 cents on the snwriter/dissention war .....

Sure, Stevie may have been in a bit of "a slump" as a writer from '91 to '95, but to say that period is "artistically invalid" is assanine.

Just as you think my opinion about her artistic worth during those years is assinine, I think the opinions about her still having released great material during those years is assinine. It cuts both ways, that's why they're opinions. I love Stevie just as much as you guys, but I just recognize what I see as crap from someone who could have done much better.

Originally Posted by EveryHour

And the "slump" was not without reason...battling Klonopin addiction and exploded breast implants could've killed her. Even Stevie may not look back fondly on those years (what she can remember ), but all of the songs from that period still have meaning to me. I do know a bad song when I hear it, and Stevie's worst is still fathoms better than any of those. I stand by that statement even though I'm aware I could never be fully objective with Stevie because she's always pulling on my heartstrings no matter what. But I would never want to change that.

That's understandable, but it doesn't negate the fact that I think her output during those years was pure ****. I became a Nicks fan because of songs like Sable On Blonde and Storms and Gold Dust Woman. Surely you can understand my dismay at her nineties output, it doesn't hold a candle to her other stuff. What were once thoughtful and emotionally stirring lyrics became cliched and ridiculous, and more than half of the songs she recorded during this time weren't even written from her pen. I just do not understand why some (not necessarily you) can't understand why I think those nineties songs are garbage. It may be Stevie Nicks singing them, but it isn't Stevie Nicks to me.

Just as those songs pull at your heartstrings, they don't pull at mine because I don't hear the emotion in her lyrics, or even her voice. When I put on a Stevie Nicks song, I do it because I feel as if she's speaking my language and there is a person out there who I feel writes songs for me. That wasn't there at that time. She was at a time where her life, in general, was in a bad state and she recorded a lot of that music in the same state of mind; it wasn't as satisfying as it was back in the day because all of her creativity was sapped. That, in turn, sapped her enthusiasm and high spirits and we were given a lot of lackluster songs that reflected her own disappointment with her music.

Originally Posted by EveryHour

I'm happy listening to music from an emotional point of view as opposed to technical. And if part of the total package of Stevie's talent is that she has the ability to stir this up in people, so be it. It comes back, again, to the probability of Stevie being (humanly) unable to listen to the songs at face value without associating them with how sick she felt at the time or her struggles with the industry and producers. There were some outstanding vocal performances (no matter what you think of Bitch, that vocal is awesome! And I couldn't disagree with you more, dissention, about the Blue Denim vocal...), and she didn't record those songs for TimeSpace because she wanted to.

That's exactly my point: I listen to her songs from an emotional point of view and those songs did nothing to stir my emotions, with the exception that I felt bad for her because the quality of her stuff was so disappointing.

As for the vocals, she had some great ones, but for every great one, there was a stinker like "Kick It."

When it comes to Timespace, she could've added more new songs to satisfy herself. but she didn't, probably because she didn't have anything worthwhile.

Originally Posted by EveryHour

As for Street Angel, it was nothing new for Stevie to pull old songs for an album...she loves to do that. I hardly think she was hurting to fill up the album since it has 13 tracks. I love Street Angel (and, as you mentioned dissention, that tour= ), though I could be swayed if I ever came to know Stevie's original artistic vision for the album. (Though I do think Jane should have been on some sort of benefit album so people wouldn't have to wonder why she was singing about a chimpanzee, and been replaced with Inspiration. But that's another thread......) I understand also, dissention, that part of your thread was simply presenting facts, but I simply don't care what the numbers are. She never would have ceased to mean the world to her true fans, and to argue whether or not The Dance was the sole reason for her career revival is kind of a big "what if" that is uninteresting to me personally. It could never be proven, so why waste your time? What I am sure of is that a lot of fans are grateful for The Dance or they may have never known of FM or Stevie!

No, it's nothing new for Stevie to resurrect a couple of old songs, but almost all of the songs she wrote and used for Street Angel were old songs; the rest were written by other songwriters. Surely it stands to reason that someone can come away form that album thinking she was most definitely not at in a creative period.

As I've said before numerous times, her and her songs would not be forgotten by people, especially us fans, she just would not have been a viable or bankable solo artist. We can call it a "what if" situation, but other saying that she would have bounced back without The Dance are using the same "what if" arguments.

Just my thoughts.