Buckingham blames “disoriented” Stevie Nicks for the lack of new Fleetwood Mac music

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It took him five years to release OOTC after quitting Fleetwood Mac and then he went eleven years between OOTC and SYW without releasing a studio album. In that same eleven year period, Stevie released two solo albums and did three solo tours. The Dance was maybe a six month commitment.

He had been working on a solo album in that time (the original Gift of Screws) that was shelved to serve the Mac.

And even if it took five years to release OOTC, he was still crafting it, writing all the songs and producing them.

You are right about Stevie’s commitment to steady touring for and in-between projects.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It’s okay. “Street of Dreams” is a masterpiece.

I’m not sure it was worth the five year wait. It definitely would have benefited from Mick and John. I’m not super impressed that he did most of the instrumentation himself. It makes it feel synthetic.

That's my least favorite on the record. This is the Time is my favorite.
I hear you about the instrumentation. Fwiw, I think Under the Skin is Lindsey's best record.

[blinker12]

Originally Posted by elle

2 things can co-exist:

• fact: Stevie has not been creative anymore and she did everything in her power to stop another Fleetwood Mac album.
• fact: Lindsey sees Fleetwood Mac as his life's work and at 70+ does not want to be referred to as "former FM member" - he wants to still be a full-fledged member. that has everything to do with the band, and the only thing that has to do with Stevie is that she wants FM to be SN's band. Mick clearly has been fighting that.

Yes, I agree and get all that. What I was saying is, if you want someone to invite you back into their fold, you generally don't belittle and insult that person publicly. Even if Mick is fighting Stevie's supremacy, as you say, she is still in while Lindsey is out.

His early press for the album was a lot more diplomatic when it came to Stevie. In the Marc Maron/WTF interview, even though he did say she was responsible for him getting fired, he also said things along the lines of "I just want Stevie to be happy." That's a lot more effective strategy for building bridges, IMO -- even while not specifically excusing her behavior.

[BTW, I'm not saying they SHOULD reunite or that I want them to. Just that if Lindsey wants that to happen, he should re-evaluate his approach.]

[jbrownsjr]

I think he wants back in just for revenge. Yes, he's very controlling. And... THAT ticket FOR A RUMOURS 5 would be SUPER HOT.

[rhiannondontgo]

Originally Posted by blinker12

Yes, I agree and get all that. What I was saying is, if you want someone to invite you back into their fold, you generally don't belittle and insult that person publicly. Even if Mick is fighting Stevie's supremacy, as you say, she is still in while Lindsey is out.

His early press for the album was a lot more diplomatic when it came to Stevie. In the Marc Maron/WTF interview, even though he did say she was responsible for him getting fired, he also said things along the lines of "I just want Stevie to be happy." That's a lot more effective strategy for building bridges, IMO -- even while not specifically excusing her behavior.

[BTW, I'm not saying they SHOULD reunite or that I want them to. Just that if Lindsey wants that to happen, he should re-evaluate his approach.]

I was baffled by this too. Every interview has him talking about how he’d love to reunite with the band and he wants them to have a better ending. But he’s got to know that now that SN is the HBIC, his constant public criticism of her is going to keep him from ever being welcome back in that circle.

At times I wonder if he doesn’t want to actually be back as much as he wants to look like he does. Like the point of all these interview lines might be to remind the world he didn’t want this to happen and he had planned to stick it out, and him not being there is solely on her. I think it’s possible he may want to make those points without actually having a real desire to return to the situation (which we all know would require a lot of apologizing and asskissing to SN, I doubt this is anything he wants to have to do lol) .

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by rhiannondontgo

I was baffled by this too. Every interview has him talking about how he’d love to reunite with the band and he wants them to have a better ending. But he’s got to know that now that SN is the HBIC, his constant public criticism of her is going to keep him from ever being welcome back in that circle.

At times I wonder if he doesn’t want to actually be back as much as he wants to look like he does. Like the point of all these interview lines might be to remind the world he didn’t want this to happen and he had planned to stick it out, and him not being there is solely on her. I think it’s possible he may want to make those points without actually having a real desire to return to the situation (which we all know would require a lot of apologizing and asskissing to SN, I doubt this is anything he wants to have to do lol) .

I think on some level he wants to come back, but knows it won't happen. So in the meantime (pun intended), he can bang on her in the press. And I don't disagree with what he's saying at all. She does want that STEVIE NICKS persona, along with not wanting to contribute writing.

If only we little people had the press listening to us.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

He had been working on a solo album in that time (the original Gift of Screws) that was shelved to serve the Mac.

And even if it took five years to release OOTC, he was still crafting it, writing all the songs and producing them.

From September 11, 1962 through April 21, 1967, the Beatles started “Please Please Me” and finished “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band,” just for perspective of what’s possible in five years. In five years, with comparatively primitive technology, they revolutionized what was possible with music. They showed what actual creative growth looks like.

Lindsey’s talk of creative growth is a ruse. His works are largely interchangeable. His OOTC songs are largely interchangeable with his TITN songs, and those weren’t a radical departure from his Go Insane songs. In fact, “Go Insane,” “Big Love,” and “Doing What I Can” are basically the song.

The reason it took him so long to release albums is because he didn’t have the songs. Lindsey was never the most prolific writer. He was more interested in the process, where he let himself get lost for years at a time, than with writing and releasing albums.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

From September 11, 1962 through April 21, 1967, the Beatles started “Please Please Me” and finished “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band,” just for perspective of what’s possible in five years. In five years, with comparatively primitive technology, they revolutionized what was possible with music. They showed what actual creative growth looks like.

Lindsey’s talk of creative growth is a ruse. His works are largely interchangeable. His OOTC songs are largely interchangeable with his TITN songs, and those weren’t a radical departure from his Go Insane songs. In fact, “Go Insane,” “Big Love,” and “Doing What I Can” are basically the song.

The reason it took him so long to release albums is because he didn’t have the songs. Lindsey was never the most prolific writer. He was more interested in the process, where he let himself get lost for years at a time, than with writing and releasing albums.

I'm going to "YES AND" you. Yes, and, he did roll a lot of his solo work into FMac records.

Where you and I really agree is that he's not really a pioneer. I mean, not really. (said in my gay voice).

Where you and I might disagree is that at least he's out there making new music and still writing. Give a full listen, with some bourbon and perhaps a little 420. It's really a very lovely album. BuckVie is a lovely album. What makes me crack up is that he will say he's helping Christine deviate from normal pop music. I think Christine needs to deviate him from his perception of what he thinks is groundbreaking, or "against the grain".

And finally where we really disagree. It was really unethical and IMHO downright savage to have him fired and not even face him. She lost what little respect I had for her. Yes Yes, I know you think it was Azoff and classic East/West. Couldn't disagree more.

Granted, I bit my lip a lot of his show. It was still good to see him again and ALIVE. But for the love of God speed up Trouble, NGBA, and do a full band Big Love for Christ's sake!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! Repetition is killing that man faster than STEVIE NICKS. !!!

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I'm going to "YES AND" you. Yes, and, he did roll a lot of his solo work into FMac records.

Where you and I really agree is that he's not really a pioneer. I mean, not really. (said in my gay voice).

Where you and I might disagree is that at least he's out there making new music and still writing. Give a full listen, with some bourbon and perhaps a little 420. It's really a very lovely album. BuckVie is a lovely album. What makes me crack up is that he will say he's helping Christine deviate from normal pop music. I think Christine needs to deviate him from his perception of what he thinks is groundbreaking, or "against the grain".

And finally where we really disagree. It was really unethical and IMHO downright savage to have him fired and not even face him. She lost what little respect I had for her. Yes Yes, I know you think it was Azoff and classic East/West. Couldn't disagree more.

Granted, I bit my lip a lot of his show. It was still good to see him again and ALIVE. But for the love of God speed up Trouble, NGBA, and do a full band Big Love for Christ's sake!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! Repetition is killing that man faster than STEVIE NICKS. !!!

I’m with you, entirely, on this.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

It was really unethical and IMHO downright savage to have him fired and not even face him.

We don't use that word because it's ugly.

I don't know if this was why he was fired but if Mick/Stevie had said in the CBS This Morning interview or the 2018 Rolling Stone interview that came after the tv interview that Lindsey was fired because he wouldn't apologize for telling Stevie that she isn't able to write for a FM album, that she doesn't have energy on stage any more, and that she talks too much on stage, I would've said okay that's how it is. Fine.

But because they said on CBS that Lindsey didn't want to tour for another year after Stevie wouldn't tour for over a year in 2012, and then it comes out that he wasn't fired for that; I don't think the firing was just. All I think I know is that Stevie just didn't want to be in a band anymore and I don't know why, or what he did in 2017 or 2018 to her that she wanted him out.

It was cowardly of Mick, John, Chris, and Stevie not to conference call Lindsey, with Irving on the line, and let him know he's fired.

That being said, I still went to see the 2018 and 2019 shows multiple times because Stevie is my favorite of all time.

FM is my favorite band and it upsets me that they ended this way. At least when Lindsey left in 1987 they got it together and made an album!

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

We don't use that word because it's ugly.
!

He was terminated.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Where you and I might disagree is that at least he's out there making new music and still writing.

I respect that about him. I also respect that about the two guys who took over for him.

Yes Yes, I know you think it was Azoff and classic East/West. Couldn't disagree more.

I wouldn’t say it was THE reason he got sacked, but I think Lindsey lost a critical ally during the tour negotiations. It wouldn’t surprise me if Irving stopped trying to smooth things over with Stevie during the tour negotiations like he was inclined to in the past, especially after successfully relaunching The Eagles, letting Stevie reach her breaking point and throwing him under the bus when she did.

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

But because they said on CBS that Lindsey didn't want to tour for another year after Stevie wouldn't tour for over a year in 2012, and then it comes out that he wasn't fired for that; I don't think the firing was just.

I’m not convinced that they weren’t told to use that as a reason, especially since there was some truth in Lindsey asking to delay the tour. He admitted as much. Not by a year, but details were never their forte.

However, I don’t really see the hypocrisy of Stevie asking for another year to tour her album. For starters, she was already on tour, not starting a tour. More importantly, she has an actual viable solo career that she spent decades building. She did at least five solo tours before he did his first and three more before he did his second. In Lindseyspeak, her solo career is also big machine and is a major reason they continue being an arena band.

It was cowardly of Mick, John, Chris, and Stevie not to conference call Lindsey, with Irving on the line, and let him know he's fired.

They were instructed not to contact him, probably by legal. Irving knew there would be a lawsuit. There always is.

FM is my favorite band and it upsets me that they ended this way. At least when Lindsey left in 1987 they got it together and made an album!

Obviously not because of Neil or Mike. The day after the tour ended, Neil went into the studio with Crowded House (which probably means those songs were written for Fleetwood Mac).

Other than to pad ticket sales, without the possibility of new music, I don’t get why they brought on Neil and Mike instead of bringing back Billy and Rick.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

However, I don’t really see the hypocrisy of Stevie asking for another year to tour her album. For starters, she was already on tour, not starting a tour. More importantly, she has an actual viable solo career that she spent decades building. She did at least five solo tours before he did his first and three more before he did his second. In Lindseyspeak, her solo career is also big machine and is a major reason they continue being an arena band.

2012 was the In Your Dreams tour, but the 2011 leg of the In Your Dreams Tour did end 7 months before the 2012 leg started so it kind of was starting a tour.

You're right that her solo career is viable. But if she's going to say that FM is a team and she's not the boss, Mick, John, and Lindsey wanted to tour in 2012 and she didn't want to tour for another year.
Mick certainly voiced that he wasn't happy with what she did in 2012 in the Playboy interview.
It's just about believing what you(Stevie) says and she must not believe that team speech she gave to CBS.

Were you surprised they settled with Lindsey given they thought they had a good defense to the charges he made? I guess since the judge didn't dismiss Lindsey's suit they (the lawyers) thought better to settle

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Were you surprised they settled with Lindsey given they thought they had a good defense to the charges he made?

who thought that? did you read the lawsuit? it's pretty straightforward.

they were all bluster basking in their lies (see you in court!!) as long as it was not legal and they were not actually in court. then they had no leg to stand on. remember, they broke the contract, all of them (including IA) and they knew they were lucky if he doesn't completely decide to take them to the cleaners. that's why they settled.

and apparently he would have been happy to take all that dirty laundry that he's been airing recently to the court. imagine the spectacle!

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Other than to pad ticket sales, without the possibility of new music, I don’t get why they brought on Neil and Mike instead of bringing back Billy and Rick.

Billy would agree with you on this. As do I.

IDK about Neil, but Old I'm Not The Boss wanted Mike in the band. $he was a member of The Heartbreakers, after all.