Christine Article

[macfan 57]

Thanks to John & Cristian and everyone else who have injected some sanity into this thread. This started out when someone was nice enough to post what for me was very exciting news about Christine's new album. "Phil" has attempted to ruin virtually every thread about Chris for a while now. I have been a fan of Christine for almost 30 years and I'm not going to let someone like this ruin anything for me.

By the way, about a year ago there were problems here on the Ledge with other problem posters. Marty suggested that people could use the ignore function here on the Ledge. I have now done that. So, until "Phil" disappears or is banned from the Ledge, at least he has been banished from my Ledge experience.

[Phil]

It would seem that a selection of Ledgies believe in kicking a guy whilst he's down. I thought that the Ledge Forums were comprised of mature contributors who embraced diversity and difference of opinion... I was obviously mistaken.

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Phil
It would seem that a selection of Ledgies believe in kicking a guy whilst he's down. I thought that the Ledge Forums were comprised of mature contributors who embraced diversity and difference of opinion... I was obviously mistaken.

Phil, nobody is kicking you while you're down.

As far as I can tell, most of the people on this board welcome diverse opinions. The fact that you dislike Christine and her music isn't a problem. What's a problem is that you go beyond any mature sort of criticism and use terms like c**t to attack her.

I suspect that by presenting mature criticisms and opinions, you will get mature responses.

Just an idea.

[Phil]

Have I resorted to profanity during this thread? It seems that many of you are obsessed with reprising the 'c' word wherever possible which, of course, says more about you than me.
I don't believe you will tolerate my criticisms no matter how they are presented. I suspect that compliance is the mantra being embraced in these parts and that any deviation from this calls for punishment. I never realised how many bullies frequented this board.

[Rainman]

I suspect that compliance is the mantra being embraced in these parts and that any deviation from this calls for punishment. I never realised how many bullies frequented this board.

This is my last response to this increasingly silly thread:

Read the many posts on this board, Phil, and you will see that "compliance" is anything BUT the mantra "embraced in these parts." People "in these parts" slam the music, and the artists, all the time. It's half the fun and makes for lively discussions.

Now, maybe in Australia certain words and phrases have different meanings and intensities, I don't know. In any event, you're always entitled to your opinion, and in fact on this board it is always welcomed. But if you attack artists with certain inflammatory and extremely derogatory words (which have nothing to do with criticism of their work), don't be surprised if more and more people choose the "IGNORE" button.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by Phil
Have I resorted to profanity during this thread? It seems that many of you are obsessed with reprising the 'c' word wherever possible which, of course, says more about you than me.
I don't believe you will tolerate my criticisms no matter how they are presented. I suspect that compliance is the mantra being embraced in these parts and that any deviation from this calls for punishment. I never realised how many bullies frequented this board.

Come on Phil... I'm sure you are an intelligent person.... it is totally how you present your 'criticisms' There is a big difference with saying something like Well in my opinion Christine is washed up... she just doesn't cut it for me etc etc' to what you said Oh but everything I stated was fact! Christine is all washed up and the "career" is long gone. Fact. Quit with the cry baby routine.... no-one is bullying you. You reap what you sow

Pip

[macmar71]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether it be good or bad, we all can't agree otherwise we would not be individuals.
IMO I think Christine is a fabulous songwriter and that will never go away. She has written some of Fleetwood Mac's best songs from her start with them until she left. Like I said that is what I think.

[dougb]

There are Opinions and then theres just plain being an ASS-HOLE

[WindingRoad]

I probably should keep my mouth shut, but here I go....

Whatever happened to "Arizona Ranger"? This thread reminds me of him.

Anyway, I'm not that great a fan of Christine's SONGS, but I really miss her HARMONIES. I think her voice would have been a great addition to some of the SYW songs.

You know what they say, "You don't know what you've got till it's gone."

Susieq

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by darklinensuit
Hey, did Mick get fat for this tour?

- Jake

No, he's been running up hills.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by squealy
Phil, I know exactly what you're saying - I very much doubt Christine's album will be any good, and hopefully that will stop people from complaining about her not being in FM. If her songs from "Time" are any indication, she doesn't have it anymore. I've always felt she is the reason why the band isn't taken more seriously - her songs are easy-listening, middle of the road fluff. She hit a good patch in the 70s when Lindsey and Stevie joined the band, but her stuff on the 80s albums is largely forgettable and on the 90s albums it's deadly dull. I like FM just fine without her.

Phil,
I know you to be a nice guy. And while Chris showed her brilliance with songs like Why, she lost me with Everywhere. It's elevator music. She is obviously at a place in her life where she is content and that has filtered into her work for better or for worse. It would have been interesting to see what she brought to the table this time around but are they hurting without her? No way. I saw it for myself on May 7 in Columbus. Do I think there's more to her departure? Absolutely. Will we ever know the whole story? Probably not. As for her looks, when I saw Chris on the Dance tour, she looked pretty good to me. We all know that women are judged more harshly that way. You have a right to your opinion just like the rest of us, Phil. Take care.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by squealy
I don't hate Christine or anything, I just find a lot of her stuff boring, so I don't miss her on the new album. I'd certainly never call her a "c**t" (!) or comment on her looks.

Oh, the dreaded "c" word. Now that's just uncalled for. Pardon the pun, but why?

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dougb
There are Opinions and then theres just plain being an ASS-HOLE

This is the most groin obsessed thread I've ever been on.

[Phil]

Thanks for your kind words gldstwmn. To those of you who have taken objection to my past comments, I concede that they could well be interpreted as inflammatory or provocative. On some level I do wish to provoke, but only in a positive and constructive way. My objective is to stimulate thought and discussion, whether it be critical or complimentary. It concerns me, however, that I have recently been subjected to such acrimony and literal interpretation (of all that's been written) but then I realise none of you know me as a person. For the record, the earlier charge of misogyny directed at me could not be more inaccurate. If you knew my background, the work I do and my current circumstances, then I'm certain those remarks would be retracted.

My previous utilisation of the dreaded 'c' word was in no way sexual or hateful, but simply an adjective employed to illustrate my contempt for all that Christine has become. Once again, my opinion, not necessarily yours. As offensive as this word may be to some, it is of no consequence to me and in fact has become a term of affection within my group of (mostly female) friends. That said, I have realised the error of my ways and not uttered anything even remotely profane or obscene since the notorious "What's eating Christine?" thread of last month, which I might add, earnt me a strike courtesy of the Ledge Moderators. I was warned against the following:

- Posting hateful, insulting, nasty remarks and name-calling

Strangely enough, even though I have desisted from using any such language ever since, other members of this board have seemingly liberated themselves by cussing with gay abandon, all the while directing their venom at me. I'm asking myself why would these members feel the need to dredge up such obscenities? I'm guessing a degree of punishment is being exacted my way? It should be noted that obscuring the middle letters of expletives may lessen the impact but doesn't alter the fact that it still constitutes cursing - worth noting if you wish to avoid incurring the wrath of the Ledge Moderators (of course, that's assuming I haven't been singled out 'n' all).

In reference to what I wrote about Christine's looks, I was simply commenting on the expectations of the contemporary music industry (these were not necessarily my thoughts, merely an observation of the general consensus that she's an unattractive woman). Stevie has a tough enough time dealing with this, but Christine, who is older and decidedly less glamorous (by her own admission) would find it even more difficult navigating the harsh terrain of today's youth obsessed marketplace.

So there we have it my friends - maybe not exactly an apology but hopefully an explanation or justification for what I have penned. I'm not striving for acceptance but believe I deserve every right to contribute my opinions, as controversial as they may be. Try as I might, I guess I'm just not like other boys... but then I'm sure none of you would really want me to be.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally posted by Phil
...but believe I deserve every right to contribute my opinions

Absolutely, the "problem" that "I" saw in THIS thread was that you were trying to say that the thoughts you were speaking were "facts" not opinions. I personally did not say anything about the "other" thread, I was just attempting to bring to your attention that saying your thoughts were facts was going to upset some and that you may wish to simply say what you have finally said now (above). Was that really so hard? You would feel less victimized if you had just said that in the first place. As I say though, that is just MY humble "opinion".

John