This makes me see red! What is wrong with these people?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Target rocks.

AND - this one has the cool escalator that you can hook your cart to. It also makes me LMAO when two guys are holding hands while walking through the store and some of the Buckhead matrons do a double take

[SuzeQuze]

Target does rock, I was there yesterday getting stuff for Kenya!

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I have always thought that, like people, all corporations have horrible sides. !

You can think that, but it isn't true. (not the people, the corps.)

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

You can think that, but it isn't true. (not the people, the corps.)

Please list one corporation that has never done one bad thing and/or has never screwed anyone or other entity over in the name of profit, which is what I am talking about.

Tap Tap Tap - I'm waiting and have a feeling I will be waiting for a long time

Seriously, I get that Wal Mart may be worse in the eyes of many, but they are all bad in some way. For example, all the CEO's making over $50 million a year could easily give a dollar more an hour to the lower third of the labor force, but they do not. Moreover, the concept of any profit is the definition of evil to some people. So, I say shop where you want and live with your conscience.

[stargazer99]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I have always thought that, like people, all corporations have horrible sides. So, until I find one that does not, I will shop whereever is the most convenient. Having said that, I tend to support locally owned stores if given the option. For example, I buy alot of my clothes at a locally owned shop. I have known the owners for 15 or so years and they make it worth my while to shop there even though it is a tad more $$$ to do so. For example, I just bought a FAB new coat and they gave me an extra haof off of the already marked down price. That would NEVER happen in a huge dept. store. Conversly, the person I am dating loves Wal Mart and goes there often. I go when I can, but nothing there really grabs me or is significantly less expensive than at my local Publix. So, I am not a fan of Wal Mart for that reason. Having said that, I LOVE the Target (TarJAY) by my house!

Target is my place of choice as well. Decent stuff for a good price.

We try to support local shops as well. But hubby shops at Wal-Mart (and Sam's) for the prices. I personally think the quality of most of Wal-Mart's stuff sucks, and the prices aren't much lower than places like Target, where the quality is considerably better. That on top of the fact that they're infamous for screwing their employees, while banning books, etc., that they have a "moral" issue with, totally turns me off on the place.

[irishgrl]

out of curiosity, does anyone know who the parent company for Target is?
Isnt it Lucky's/Albertsons? I cant remember.....

I know Kmart is now owned by Sears, but I could have sworn Target was also owned by another big name???

EDIT: I think I found it, Target Corp owns Target Stores, and Mervyns, and Marshall Fields

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

If Wal-Mart is so concerned about morality, why do their employees get treated like crap?

Exactly.. and the employees that they treat like crap, in turn, treat customers like crap.. I suppose you get what you are willing to pay for..

I-HATE-WAL-MART!

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Please list one corporation that has never done one bad thing and/or has never screwed anyone or other entity over in the name of profit, which is what I am talking about.

Tap Tap Tap - I'm waiting and have a feeling I will be waiting for a long time

.

Ben and Jerry's?
Working Assets?
Free trade companies?
Free range meat companies?
Organic produce companies?

You can make profits without screwing people, and there are definitely companies that do so. Of course, you may not believe that, I'm sure we've discussed this before. Like with the pollution thing - it's a way of justifying not doing what you actually could do to help (that's a guess, otherwise I don't know how you could really believe what you say about some of these issues).
Just because someone doesn't want to be mindful of their shopping and consuming, doesn't mean there aren't viable ways to do so. And once again, every little bit helps. If you want to be very, very mindful, that can take some extra effort, but it's still possible. I read about socially/ecologically mindful companies quite a bit. But then, I'm the kind of person who looks for that, maybe you just haven't seen the same news as me.

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by amber

Ben and Jerry's?
Working Assets?
Free trade companies?
Free range meat companies?
Organic produce companies?

I kind of agree with Strand here. A quick search of the internet provided info on the only two specific companies you listed, Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets. As one of the articles said, it's true that it's no Watergate, it still seems like a case of both companies not providing a complete picture to their customers in order to protect their assets. With the other three instances you listed, I'm sure a search of specific companies within those industries could turn up some bad business practices as well. Here are links to the articles regarding Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets though:

http://www.jonentine.com/articles/boston_globe.htm

http://www.envirolink.org/articles/jul97-2.html

[dissention]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

I kind of agree with Strand here. A quick search of the internet provided info on the only two specific companies you listed, Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets. As one of the articles said, it's true that it's no Watergate, it still seems like a case of both companies not providing a complete picture to their customers in order to protect their assets. With the other three instances you listed, I'm sure a search of specific companies within those industries could turn up some bad business practices as well. Here are links to the articles regarding Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets though:

http://www.jonentine.com/articles/boston_globe.htm

http://www.envirolink.org/articles/jul97-2.html

Every business is going to have something that one considers to be a "bad business practice." It's unavoidable. However, it's quite outlandish for Jason to say that since every company out there embraces some sort of bad business practice, they should all be treated equally with the hard-earned dollars of consumers; that one business should not be shunned because there's another business with bad practices right around the corner. In fact, as much as I love him, I find it almost childish in it's naive simplicity. No one will ever know every practice of every corporation they give their patronage to, but when one knows about the scummy practices of one and decides to cease giving them their business, that's neither a bad nor hypocritical thing. Total awareness is nonexistent; acting on the things that a consumer is aware of is all that anyone can do.

[amber]

Originally Posted by paleshadow

I kind of agree with Strand here. A quick search of the internet provided info on the only two specific companies you listed, Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets. As one of the articles said, it's true that it's no Watergate, it still seems like a case of both companies not providing a complete picture to their customers in order to protect their assets. With the other three instances you listed, I'm sure a search of specific companies within those industries could turn up some bad business practices as well. Here are links to the articles regarding Ben and Jerry's and Working Assets though:

http://www.jonentine.com/articles/boston_globe.htm

http://www.envirolink.org/articles/jul97-2.html

That kind of sucks. I just threw those out there, I didn't do any research. But even choosing them would be better than choosing many other companies, so I still agree with myself. You could at least do the best you can, the best that is available to you, while striving for better. If you don't do anything at all, if you aren't mindful of your choices, then for sure nothing will change. It's a mistake to flippantly write any responsibility off with "well, all companies do something bad, so It's pointless to try to find/support ones that don't." Because in fact, all companies are not equal, some are much more socially/environmentally responsible than others.

I'll check the literature at Earthjustice tomorrow, I know there are better companies than the above. And that the above are better than many other companies. I have Environmental Law and I'm volunteering at Earthjustice all semester, I should be able to find something.
In conclusion, though my examples were not 100% mountain pure, I still do not agree with Strand, and I still do find that kind of thinking dangerous Thanks for the info.
You know what would be cool? If companies like Working Assets could afford to make their own energy, in the cleanest possible way with the current technology. That's one of those projects some billionaire should seriously bankroll in partnership with a company. I bet whoever put the whole plan into effect on a big business scale like that - and paid for research to make things cheapest/cleanest, the very forefront of technology - would eventually (I'm not sure how soon) make a bumload of money. Especially if their paid for research got some patents. Cashola. Why don't billionaires ever do what I want them to????

Edit - Oh, hey, Diss, didn't see you up there! I guess now this will be the point that's twice as nice.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

That kind of sucks. I just threw those out there, I didn't do any research. But even choosing them would be better than choosing many other companies, so I still agree with myself. You could at least do the best you can, the best that is available to you, while striving for better. If you don't do anything at all, if you aren't mindful of your choices, then for sure nothing will change. It's a mistake to flippantly write any responsibility off with "well, all companies do something bad, so It's pointless to try to find/support ones that don't." Because in fact, all companies are not equal, some are much more socially/environmentally responsible than others.

Edit - Oh, hey, Diss, didn't see you up there! I guess now this will be the point that's twice as nice.

Great minds think alike, after all. :P

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by amber

That kind of sucks. I just threw those out there, I didn't do any research. But even choosing them would be better than choosing many other companies, so I still agree with myself.

Yeah, you are right. In no way did I mean to suggest that either of those companies were bad. I do believe that like Diss said every company has some element of negativity involved with it, and I think that's what Strands original argument was, that there is no such company that is angelic. Amber, you really did pick a couple of good ones though especially when compare them to so many other companies but like Strand said, even those have their controversies.

[wondergirl9847]

If we didn't shop at companies that did stupid crap....we wouldn't own anything.

People don't have the time and don't wanna put forth the effort to look into every store they decide to shop at.

Love of money is the root of all evil. Greed is very dangerous.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

Ben and Jerry's?

We are supposed to live on and dress with ice cream

Seriously, do you know all the in's and out's of BJ's? Do you know who they use for their suppliers and, if so, have you investigated them as well? Or, does it just stop at the BJ?

Originally Posted by amber

Working Assets?

They seem like a nice company, but I am sure they, like all, had screwed people in the name of the bottom line. Moreover, they do not own their own phone lines and are, therefore, using those of huge corporations like ATT, MCI, etc., which I can assure you have screwed many over in the name of the bottom line. So, so much for that.

Originally Posted by amber

Free trade companies?
Free range meat companies?
Organic produce companies?

Be more specific And - many I know of do not make their products available to people on a tight budget; in fact, most of this stuff is unobtainable to a family of five making $40,000 a year at the mill.

Originally Posted by amber

You can make profits without screwing people, and there are definitely companies that do so. Of course, you may not believe that, I'm sure we've discussed this before. Like with the pollution thing - it's a way of justifying not doing what you actually could do to help (that's a guess, otherwise I don't know how you could really believe what you say about some of these issues).

Because my head is not in the sand and I am no crazy, unrealistic, head in the purple haze Californian

Seriously and back to my main point, all companies do bad things or at least things people perceive as bad. Again, it is all a matter of self conscious and choosing the less greedy, for they are all greedy, save perhaps for the pricey BJ's, which is hardly a way to clothe and feed your family on a budget.

Originally Posted by amber

Just because someone doesn't want to be mindful of their shopping and consuming, doesn't mean there aren't viable ways to do so. And once again, every little bit helps. If you want to be very, very mindful, that can take some extra effort, but it's still possible. I read about socially/ecologically mindful companies quite a bit. But then, I'm the kind of person who looks for that, maybe you just haven't seen the same news as me.

That is hypocritical in the sense that you do so when it suits you. For example, you support many an industry and company that does bad things. I mean you smoke for goodness sake (or at least you used to) - that industry is hardly angelic Moreover, you jetted off to Vegas with little care and no regard for the airline you used (some are way worse than others) as suggest you obtained the lowest price possible.

But, you can have the last word as I am not about to beat this horse to death because you have blinders on and want to sit there and preach about how good you are