I KNEW IT! Gray Davis recalled for nothing!

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

What is so bad about him? He is WAY more moderate than what we have now and in fact is WAY more moderate than the Senate in its present state, including most D's Thus, other than the movie star thing (which is hard to overcome) - based on what he's done and opined against in CA - he seems pretty good to me, esp. when compared to Bill "hey - I am broke so I think I'll perform practice surgery on 'stray' dogs and cats in the neighborhood" Frist.

I am not saying I like Arnols, I am just saying he is not that bad

What's wrong with him? He's a ****ing pig, that's what. His father was a Nazi. Helllooooo?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

What's wrong with him? He's a ****ing pig, that's what. His father was a Nazi. Helllooooo?

He sexually molested women, his pop was a Nazi, he brazenly lied about Nixon and Humphrey having a televised debate (thereby revealing he knows absolutely nothing about our political history), he lied and said that as a child he watched tanks invade the streets of Austria, I mean, c'mon. He's a pig and numbnut who knows nothing.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

What's wrong with him? He's a ****ing pig, that's what. His father was a Nazi. Helllooooo?

Well, that was his father - many people of his age had nazi fathers I think his record in Calif. shows he is a moderate. It may very well all be subterfuge - but it is the the record of a moderate and IMO liberal as that term is defined today. I mean he is pro choice and pro gay marriage/civil union - those two alone exclude him from any national R seat by today's standards.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

He sexually molested women, his pop was a Nazi, he brazenly lied about Nixon and Humphrey having a televised debate (thereby revealing he knows absolutely nothing about our political history), he lied and said that as a child he watched tanks invade the streets of Austria, I mean, c'mon. He's a pig and numbnut who knows nothing.

That may very well all be true (though that his father was a Nazi is unfair to hold against him as many were then and he shows no signs of Nazism) - but he is still a moderate whose political votes have not been anything but that.

As for the molesting of women - the jury is still in the air on that one

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, that was his father - many people of his age had nazi fathers I think his record in Calif. shows he is a moderate. It may very well all be subterfuge - but it is the the record of a moderate and IMO liberal as that term is defined today. I mean he is pro choice and pro gay marriage/civil union - those two alone exclude him from any national R seat by today's standards.

he's also pro grope, though. I think he is a pig, too - I am thankful that he is pro choice, and pro gay marriage, but he's not pro education, as far as I can tell, and, well, I just wish it were someone else. Admittedly, he is not as bad as I thought he would be, but I bet he is worse than i have found out about, thus far. I mean, if prior to the recall he was holding meetings with Enron, well...And I believe he is as savvy/slimy as all get out. I mean, he built a lucrative career on almost nothing - that is a skill i don't like in my politicians

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

he's also pro grope, though. I think he is a pig, too - I am thankful that he is pro choice, and pro gay marriage, but he's not pro education, as far as I can tell, and, well, I just wish it were someone else. Admittedly, he is not as bad as I thought he would be, but I bet he is worse than i have found out about, thus far. I mean, if prior to the recall he was holding meetings with Enron, well...And I believe he is as savvy/slimy as all get out. I mean, he built a lucrative career on almost nothing - that is a skill i don't like in my politicians

well, I think almost all politicians are slime in a slimey buisiness - so there is that

But, my point was everyone complained (and still do) that he was and is a know nothing idiot - yet his administration so far has been extremely moderate if not liberal. So, I give him credit for that as he earned it - to the apparent chagrain of the naysayers. Will he do better or worse in the future - who knows. Do not get me wrong - I am no huge fan of his, but his record since taking office is good - not stellar - but good - at least to me.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

he's also pro grope, though.

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

well, I think almost all politicians are slime in a slimey buisiness - so there is that

But, my point was everyone complained (and still do) that he was and is a know nothing idiot - yet his administration so far has been extremely moderate if not liberal. So, I give him credit for that as he earned it - to the apparent chagrain of the naysayers. Will he do better or worse in the future - who knows. Do not get me wrong - I am no huge fan of his, but his record since taking office is good - not stellar - but good - at least to me.

yeah, I suppose. You always say stuff like that. In my head, I know that politicians are slimey and underhanded, but I still hate it. And just cause someone isn't "as bad as I thought they would be" still doesn't make them "good" IMO.

[irishgrl]

Arnold's broken promises

Arnold's first year gets mixed reviews

and who picks up the tab for King Arnold?

folks who are interested in behind the scenes info on the Governator should go
here

In my mind, he robs Peter to pay Paul, he has special interests in his back pocket far deeper than Gray Davis EVER did, he balanced the budget on the backs of the poor (surprise!) and it appears he is more consumed with fund raising (why?) than he is with budget balancing! His policies are contradictory
no new taxes/but fund education etc...as I said, about the ONLY thing I can find good to say about him is that he is pro-choice.

[strandinthewind]

So, essentially, Arnold is bad because Pete Wilson lied and Arnols is allowing special interest groups to give money and he raised taxes when he said he would not. The first one is absurd. The second two are no suprise - he is a politician after all But, even considering the last two, Arnold has not been a bad governor or at least he has not been the R puppet everyone thought he would be, which gets back to my point that while he may be a cad, the policies he has set have not been near as bad as what many naysayers predicted. Quite the contrary, he has been a moderate and actually very Democratic as opposed to Republican.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

yeah, I suppose. You always say stuff like that. In my head, I know that politicians are slimey and underhanded, but I still hate it. And just cause someone isn't "as bad as I thought they would be" still doesn't make them "good" IMO.

Well, I do not think I ever said he was doing a good job. I think I said he was not doing as bad a job as many predicted and his adminsitration has been far from the standard R regime - it has been quite liberal as that rterm is defined today. So, I give him props for that. Again, I am not saying he is a great gov. or anything like that and if anyone got the impression I was saying that in the past, let me herein state I was not

[irishgrl]

(It doesnt surprise me that Pete Wilson lied)but Jason, I know you are are an intelligent man and yet you missed the point that both Pete and Arnold made campaign promises they immediately BROKE! of course, you will say "well, they're politicians after all" to which I will say "yes, but its still WRONG"

As for his policies not being as bad as people thought, I think you are premature! Many of the groups Arnie met with and thought they had reached an understanding with the man were only too alarmed to discover that he was completely disregarding his assurances (for example the educational agenda being gutted) I think shortchanging CA's kids is a VERY bad policy to follow, but then, I guess if the President of the US of A can do it, why shouldnt CA?

Bottom line, Arnie is a hypocrite, he berated Davis for his fundraising and being in cahoots with special interests and now he is doing the very same thing with NO SHAME! But then, he always DID have grandiose ideas of his importance.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

(It doesnt surprise me that Pete Wilson lied)but Jason, I know you are are an intelligent man and yet you missed the point that both Pete and Arnold made campaign promises they immediately BROKE! of course, you will say "well, they're politicians after all" to which I will say "yes, but its still WRONG"

As for his policies not being as bad as people thought, I think you are premature! Many of the groups Arnie met with and thought they had reached an understanding with the man were only too alarmed to discover that he was completely disregarding his assurances (for example the educational agenda being gutted) I think shortchanging CA's kids is a VERY bad policy to follow, but then, I guess if the President of the US of A can do it, why shouldnt CA?

Bottom line, Arnie is a hypocrite, he berated Davis for his fundraising and being in cahoots with special interests and now he is doing the very same thing with NO SHAME! But then, he always DID have grandiose ideas of his importance.

I get all of that - I mean boo hoo Arnold lied about taking money - what politician does not and there is no evidence Arnols is beholden to them like Davis was (I submit no one was as crooked as Davis). Again, ALL I am saying is he has not been the horrible right wingers everyone said he would be. Also, the education stuff is mostly the fault of the US Govt. who in a nutshell has refused to fund the changes they mandated. But, even if the education thing is all Arnold's fault (which I know you know it is not ) - that is one thing. He has been fairly good in other areas, esp. when compared to any other R in office. That is my sole point. Again, I am not saying Arnold is the be all and end all of good politics and I may in fact be premature. I am just saying that as of now, he has not been as bad as many thought he was going to be. But, you will never admit that - and I know that

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I get all of that - I mean boo hoo Arnold lied about taking money - what politician does not and there is no evidence Arnols is beholden to them like Davis was (I submit no one was as crooked as Davis). Again, ALL I am saying is he has not been the horrible right wingers everyone said he would be. Also, the education stuff is mostly the fault of the US Govt. who in a nutshell has refused to fund the changes they mandated. But, even if the education thing is all Arnold's fault (which I know you know it is not ) - that is one thing. He has been fairly good in other areas, esp. when compared to any other R in office. That is my sole point. Again, I am not saying Arnold is the be all and end all of good politics and I may in fact be premature. I am just saying that as of now, he has not been as bad as many thought he was going to be. But, you will never admit that - and I know that

I just didnt feel we needed to recall Gray Davis. He wasnt a bad Governor and for him to get recalled over the energy crisis is just egregious. and many of those who cried foul about Davis' collaboration with special interests were touting Arnie as free from taint because he used "his own money" and NOW he's every bit as bad if not more so than Gray ever was at pandering to special interests. I appreciate the fact that Arnie is pro-choice but I deplore his apparent ability to skirt obvious hypocrisy. THAT is my issue with Arnie, as for his possible moderate policies, I remain undecided (therefore unconvinced) To be fair, it hasnt been all that long that he's been in office so, I'll give him that. And, contrary to your assertion, I will say this about Arnie, he's a heck of a better Governor than the Bushwhacker is a President

[strandinthewind]

I stand corrected