The doc!!!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Yes, good point! So is Stevie's side winning now? This has turned into a game!

No matter how it might look, I'm not on anyone's "side," and I'm not trying to win anything.

I just think the numbers game is a silly one, because we can all find numbers that back up our particular little arguments... especially if we wish to ignore other numbers that might prove us wrong.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
[B]True, but weren't some of Stevie's songs offered up for previous FM projects?

[b]

Of course "reject" has a negative connotation, but so what? The record company at first rejected one of Willie Nelson's biggest-selling albums. The record company at first rejected Cheap Trick's At Budokan. Didn't make them bad in either case, did it?

Also, are you sure Stevie "pulled" the songs from the projects in all cases? I have my doubts about that.

[b]

Part of this was addressed above. But, Johnny, you're going to have to show me exactly where you saw or read that Warners wasn't interested in the songs. If anything, the documentary made it clear that it ultimately was Lindsey's decision.



Eh, so it is silly. I have my quirks, dammit! But look, here's the thing: Remember that Soul Asylum song? "And the phone hasn't rang for so long..." Well, in that case I kinda closed my eyes to it and liked the song anyway. It was Soul Asylum, a bunch of guys from Chicago who had never made it big and fit a certain kind of rebel persona. As for Stevie, at the age of 50-something, I expect a level of sophistication that would prevent her from saying "I should've ran..." So, yes, it depends on the writer. And if she doesn't know the grammar is incorrect, someone should have pointed it out to her. If someone did and she dismissed with her "I'm a poet" comments, well, that's just lame.

if stevies songs were rejected from previous FM projects, why would they look at that reject again , if they felt it wasnt worthy? now if you stated that her material didnt flow with the other material they had already chosen, i can understand that. but when you stated that stevies rejects werent up to par with lindseys new material(some 15 yrs old) and she felt she needed to write new songs, you imply a negative feeling about her songs. but then you say "so what" if lindsey uses his old songs for his new cd, hes been working on them all along. well stevies been writing all along and recording, lindsey hasnt. as for lindsey and his record company , rejecting the project. if someone says to you linds, your songs would be better suited for a fm cd, rather than a solo, (kind of like the example of and extented vacation and getting fired) and if he was so content and believed and was sure of his solo stuff being out there wouldnt he have put it out anyways,,,, just like the whole double cd with syw, he was willing to eat lots of money if it only sold 300,000,he would of been fine with that (but in the end of the doc. he stated well i have a family to raise and a house to pay for) so why didnt he go forward and let this body of work that he worked on for so long be released as a solo? watch the "pbs Rose show" where he discussed what they said to him, but of course he isnt gonna say yuou know the record comp told me no way lindsey, on tv about himself, he just states it should be a fm project, that he is not a "brand" in other words its not gonna work with just your name on it.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by teedee
im not saying it cant happen, and according to your list,, i was at some of those shows venues like mansfield and hartford to name a few and those venues have lawn seats, they crame as many ppl who will buy them, but to say that the actual pavillions were half full, when i looked around as i always do ( force of habit) they were not. i think some of those figures in what full capacity is when there is a lawn in volved , can be misleading.. we all know lawn seats dont always sell out and even when they do sell out, you can always buy a lawn seat.

Comps.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by sodascouts
What are you doing replying to this golden oldie? Keep up, girl! lol

I think it's Waddy, too, hence my little hair comparison post, lol. Lindsey's hair never looked like that, not even in the BN days, as a couple people were guessing. And Lindsey is definitely too vain to wear glasses at a concert.

Sorry, this is the first chance I've had to go through this monstrous thread.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Eh, excuses. The numbers don't lie.

depends on where you gather ones information... not that i am questioning the person who posted thos figures, but just cause somethings in print doesnt mean its true.


and as far as you stating on that earlier post about are you sure it was stevie that pulled the songs, well if you mean the lindsey pulled them, then why on earth would he be asking for those rejects back for this cd? im not saying it cant happen, but i dont see him asking for it, i think once he hears something , i think he knows either what to do with it or he just doesnt feel it. i know you stated rejects doesnt mean a song is bad , but its in the way you propose your posts, that makes everything stevie , look in a negative light, is all im saying.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
I see it the other way: the less you sell in the commercial climate of pop music, the more likely you are to create something extraordinary & not just disposable, easily digested radio fodder. Of course, being a poor seller isn't a guarantee of that, but it's often a sign.

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And that pretty much sums up this discussion.

Back around to the old Art vs. Commercialism argument again.

And just to reiterate, I firmly believe that Stevie has done a brilliant job of walking that thin line between expressing her offbeat artistic impulses, while wrapping her material in musical settings that can also appeal to a broader audience.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
[B]True, but weren't some of Stevie's songs offered up for previous FM projects?

[b]

Of course "reject" has a negative connotation, but so what? The record company at first rejected one of Willie Nelson's biggest-selling albums. The record company at first rejected Cheap Trick's At Budokan. Didn't make them bad in either case, did it?

Also, are you sure Stevie "pulled" the songs from the projects in all cases? I have my doubts about that.

[b]

Part of this was addressed above. But, Johnny, you're going to have to show me exactly where you saw or read that Warners wasn't interested in the songs. If anything, the documentary made it clear that it ultimately was Lindsey's decision.



Eh, so it is silly. I have my quirks, dammit! But look, here's the thing: Remember that Soul Asylum song? "And the phone hasn't rang for so long..." Well, in that case I kinda closed my eyes to it and liked the song anyway. It was Soul Asylum, a bunch of guys from Chicago who had never made it big and fit a certain kind of rebel persona. As for Stevie, at the age of 50-something, I expect a level of sophistication that would prevent her from saying "I should've ran..." So, yes, it depends on the writer. And if she doesn't know the grammar is incorrect, someone should have pointed it out to her. If someone did and she dismissed with her "I'm a poet" comments, well, that's just lame.

so are you saying all lindseys compositions, the grammar is correct.. look at his early cds, gosh sometimes there is a lack of words and lots of noises, and i dont mean his guitar. like maybe he didnt know how to finish writing the song. thats why when ootc came out , i was so impressed with him again , aside from fm, but as a solo, i thought that cd ootc was like him being reborn as a solo, its one of my fave cds

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Stick around. Soon enough, she'll be killing them in Vegas lounges.

you see i think you just like to throw the negative thoughts out there and provoke the conversation to go that way.

if it was a joke, ha ha ha that was cute, untrue but funny, maybe lindsey will open up for her.!

[teedee]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
You're right, they don't....

Lindsey's Out Of The Cradle Tour Pollstar Data:

02/22.....Los Angeles, CA
1,796 of 2,200 (82%).....$40,410

03/09.....Ventura, CA
850 of 850 (100%).....$19,975

03/10.....San Francisco, CA
627 of 627 (100%).....$12,540

03/12.....Portland, OR
689 of 1,120 (62%).....$10,162

03/16.....Seattle, WA
1,161 of 1,300 (89%).....$18,278

03/17.....St. Paul, MN
740 of 946 (78%).....$12,574

03/18.....Chicago, IL
750 of 750 (100%).....$15,000

03/22.....Detroit, MI
364 of 427 (85%).....$5,285

03/25.....New Britain, CT
750 of 1,200 (63%).....$12,080

03/28.....Philadelphia, PA
722 of 810 (89%).....$13,357

03/31.....New York, NY
1,052 of 1,384 (76%).....$31,560

04/02.....Atlanta, GA
704 of 704 (100%).....$12,320

04/07.....Boulder, CO
856 of 856 (100%).....$15,280

04/09.....Phoenix, AZ.....supported by Susan James
576 of 576 (100%).....$12,140

04/10.....Las Vegas, NV
447 of 700 (64%).....$8,555

Even Stevie's lowest selling shows were doing up to four times those numbers.
So let's not go there, huh?

AMEN

[dissention]

Originally posted by teedee
im not saying it cant happen, and according to your list,, i was at some of those shows venues like mansfield and hartford to name a few and those venues have lawn seats, they crame as many ppl who will buy them, but to say that the actual pavillions were half full, when i looked around as i always do ( force of habit) they were not. i think some of those figures in what full capacity is when there is a lawn in volved , can be misleading.. we all know lawn seats dont always sell out and even when they do sell out, you can always buy a lawn seat.

Really? I was at the SA, Enchanted, and TISL shows that are listed in MA and CT and they seemed pretty half-full to me. I've been to shows from other artists at the same venues and you can certainly tell when they're half-full.

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
It is the hypothesis that we are working with, but these artists don't sell as much as Stevie does. No Doubt tickets cost like thirty bucks on ticketmaster, not the 125 fm charges with stevie.

Stevei doesn't cost that much, FLEETWOOD MAC does.

[dissention]

Originally posted by teedee
im sorry but i just cant believe that attendance count.... dont you think if you were looking at a 19,000 seater and only 3000.00 sold, dont you think that they would cancel that date? or at least move it to a smaller venue. i find that really hard to believe that only 2777 was counted.

How can you NOT believe it?! Those are the official numbers!

Now we're going to start attributing people to her shows that they never attended?!

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
You're right, they don't....

Lindsey's Out Of The Cradle Tour Pollstar Data:

Even Stevie's lowest selling shows were doing up to four times those numbers.
So let's not go there, huh?

Stevie never played clubs, did she?

If you want to compare, at least Lindsey sold out many of those shows, eh? Stevie certainly didn't.

[dissention]

Originally posted by teedee
depends on where you gather ones information... not that i am questioning the person who posted thos figures, but just cause somethings in print doesnt mean its true.

So the people who post the facts are posting false info? Those stats are from Pollstar, how can you disregard them?

[dissention]

This thread reminds me of a bunch of anklebiters in a sandbox at the local playground.

Who's going to throw the first clump of sand and be taken away by Mommy?