Could SAY YOU WILL be IT????

[tommer]

CarneVaca, you sound exactly like my writing teacher (which is fairly okay...) but please note that candlebright was written in 1970, so claiming her writing skills deteriorated over the years using this text is somewhat problematic.
could you please use your skillful lyrics dissection methods to help me with the likes of Family Man or Big Love? thanks.
but seriously, you can bash as much as you like, but the proven fact is that stevie's lyrics were, and still are, effective. writing song lyrics and poetry are not the same thing, and you should know that.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

CarneVaca, I'm sure you don't care but you at least had me on your side until your very last post in which you disected the lyrics. I'll be the first to admit that I am not a fan of everything that Stevie does or every one of her songs, and I love hearing other opinions about things... But you can't sit there and pull apart lyrics like that and tell us why they are objectively, or "academically" good or bad. Differently lyrics speak in different ways to different people. Even though I very much dislike Welcome to the Room Sara, you can't claim that there is nothing good in the lyrics just because nothing jumps out at you. Someone else might find their own inspiration in them, where you and I do not. And besides, there is more to a song that the lyrics, and you don't have to judge a song academically. In fact, I don't really see how that is productive at all. Not everything has to be a poetic masterpiece to be considered a good song.

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tommer
but please note that candlebright was written in 1970, so claiming her writing skills deteriorated over the years using this text is somewhat problematic.

Good point, Tommer. I did not know that. If I had, I would have revised my comments to say that if it was at the bottom of the drawer that long, it should have stayed there.

could you please use your skillful lyrics dissection methods to help me with the likes of Family Man or Big Love? thanks.

I could, sure.

song lyrics and poetry are not the same thing, and you should know that.

Indeed. And you've just helped my case. Notice I said she was reaching, rather unsuccessfully, for some poetic value with the term "beloved." In poetry, that might work. In a song, it falls flat and seems unnatural. A song to be true to the emotion should reflect the way you would naturally speak. I don't know too many people who call their significant others "beloved." And that's my point.

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
CarneVaca, I'm sure you don't care but you at least had me on your side until your very last post in which you disected the lyrics.

I'm glad I was able to keep you on my side that long.

In fact, I don't really see how that is productive at all. Not everything has to be a poetic masterpiece to be considered a good song.

It probably isn't. But I'm bored at work today. Actually, I take no issue with any of the points you made. I realize that dissecting music the way I did takes the pleasure out of it and is not why people listen to music. However, I was taken to task on why I made certain comments, so I just decided to explain exactly where I was coming from.

[ERigby818]

Originally posted by Bella Figura

I personally find aggressive speech tends to dissolve intelligent discourse into a manic verbal tennis match and winds up being a perverse form of entertainment (like a good car crash). So YOU the audience must use your own intelligence, wit and experience and try not get sucked into the mania.

Well said, Bella. I'm trying ...But here I go.

I respect Carne's opinion that Stevie's writing has deteriorated. I don't agree with it. In fact, when I first read it, it sounded absurd, nothing like this had ever dawned on me. I happen to think the lyrics to Bombay Sapphires are brilliant and powerful and have made a major impression with me. I think he'd respect my opinion. However, when I first read the initial statement implying objective-minded people would agree with the "fact" that Stevie's writing had gone downhill, I was a little offended. I think I am objective-minded, though as a Stevie fan, not completely objective, no. But objective-minded, sure. Which is why I respect the opinion. Heck, in my opnion, Stevie's voice has deteriorated over the years, and I have posted several times whining about her confining her voice to the same small note range. But many ledgies would disagree with me, and argue her voice has gotten better fuller, richer, etc. I can see that point of view. And I respect it. I would never try to pass off my opnion as fact...because it's not.
All I'm saying is I was a little offended by that statement. I'll get over it.

-Sonia

[Wldhrt315]

Listen Carne, you are being a jerk. Most of us here respect your opinion but you are disrespecting a lot of fans and that is not cool. Will you just let this die? If anyone else states their opinion and it has to do about you, just don't answer, not this time. By your responses to my first message you are full of criticisms so please spare me.


Thank you.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Wldhrt315
Listen Carne, you are being a jerk. Most of us here respect your opinion but you are disrespecting a lot of fans and that is not cool. Will you just let this die? If anyone else states their opinion and it has to do about you, just don't answer, not this time. By your responses to my first message you are full of criticisms so please spare me.

You're calling me a jerk and I'm the one being disrespectful? You should look in the mirror.

If you don't want to get involved in the discussion, don't. As long as someone addresses me, I will respond. That's the proper thing to do. If you don't like it, stay out of it. But don't get on here and start name-calling. That's just classless.

[Sugar]

I suspect if someone doesn't want Carne's opinion, the best choice is simply not to get into the fray. The best way to let this die is quit posting to this thread. Period. Frankly I don't care if this thread dies or not, so I'm going to post!

As a Stevie fan I was not offended by Carne's post. It didn't occur to me to get offended. I'm not concerned with Carne's opinion as to what sort of fan I am. I'm not concerned with Carne's definition of "objective" because last I checked, this was a fan message board and for that reason I suspect none of us are really "objective". But I understood what he meant. There are Stevie fans who blindly like anything she does. I liked some of the stuff on TISL, some I didn't like so much. I happen to think that generally the strongest stuff on the album is the older stuff (but I would take the title track and FFG over Candlebright). Am I objective? Am I not? Who cares?

The point is you can only really be offended if you give the other person the power to offend you.

And for the record, I like "Welcome to the Room...Sara" and "When I See You Again".

[Dulcimer]

I find it a little disheartening that people keep attacking one guy for expressing his opinion, and it seems weird that he's always having to defend himself against accusations of disrespect when it was others who disrespected him. I read and reread his original "objective" post, and I just can't see how anyone would take offense at that. He didn't target it at anybody, and yet several people jumped all over him. Wldhrt, what gives you the right to call anybody a jerk? I think Carne has shown more restraint than a lot of other people would've. Give the guy a break. So he's not crazy about Stevie Nicks. Big deal!! Is that any reason to keep attacking the guy?

I've been a member for about a month, and before that I used to come here for months just to read what people were saying. This is a great way to get news of my favorite band. I keep seeing this happen and it's so disappointing... Why can't we just have a civil discussion? If somebody doesn't like a song that Stevie Nicks wrote, is it the end of the world? I can't believe I've jumped into this thing, but there you have it.

Let's be a little more reasonable people.

[ricohv]

Carne-
But is Stevie really inspired if she writes "drowning in the sea of love" but actually sings "drowndin' " in the sea of love" ?

-A Disrespecrful Jerk, Looking in The Mirror-

just kidding! I don't take anything personally here, and don't think anyone else should either...I mean, we're arguing about the merits of the individual members of Fleetwood Mac i.e.: we are all a bunch of freaks!!! [I]

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by ricohv
I mean, we're arguing about the merits of the individual members of Fleetwood Mac i.e.: we are all a bunch of freaks!!!

Now THAT is the most succinct thing I've read in a long time!

Thanks for helping to put it all back into perspective.



Johnny Stew (a self-described Mac-Freak)

[Nightbird_Brett]

OK...I've edited my original post. All I wanted to see was a little peace like there used to be in here. Apparently, others rather the fighting. I can respect that opinion.

[Sugar]

I for one enjoy the debate that happens on this board. I LIKE knowing that there are other fans who don't think every FM song is the greatest song ever written and that Mick seems to do anything for a buck (I particularly liked Tracy's comment on burnish.com about not wanting him to have her credit card number! ) If I wanted to be on a board of syncophants, I could join the Stepford Fans over on Mick's board. Am I the only one who finds it creepy over there?

And, HELLO, am I the only one who knows that "Reconsider Me"wasn't even written by Stevie?

There's also a good amount of people who have no idea what all the fuss is about...And of course the largest group of people are the ones who think this thing is so ridiculous they haven't bothered to post on this thread at all. So who decides what's offensive? I think it's offensive Carne got called a jerk by someone who was making a case for kinder language. I think it's offensive people challenge Carne and then immediately say, "Can't we all just be a little nicer, I mean, now that I got my dig in..." I'm way more offended by hypocrisy than a harsh tone.

[CarneVaca]

First off, let me say thank you, Sugar, for infusing a bit of sanity into this surreal discussion.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nightbird_Brett
Apparently, you do not know the definition of a fact Carne--because what you said there is 100% an opinion.

Oh, come on, I know what a fact is. Honest, I do. I think you missed my use of hyperbole.

One final challenge to you Carne--you think you are this prolific song critic who loves to disect Stevie's songs and that what you say is "academically correct". I was just wondering if you would care to share on the Ledge any of your own original songs that you have written.

I've written a fair number of songs, certainly not as many as Stevie. I like to work on my songs and come up with new chord progressions and ideas. Certainly I don't have a recording contract. It's not my raison d'etre. It's just something I do as a hobby. Every month I take one song to a songwriting workshop, where I perform them with one of my guitars. Then 15 to 20 other people take their turns at dissecting them. You wouldn't believe the amount of criticism I've taken! If you guys think I'm harsh... As a writer, I learned early on that a number of people will always dislike what you create. No matter how good it is. I've also found that a number of people will like stuff that is bad, plain and simple. That is why we end up with disasters like the Bad Street Boys and Britney Spears.

Most importantly, I am my own toughest critic.

As for posting my stuff on this site I once started a thread in Chit Chat
and posted a verse of a song I had written. That's about as much as I want to share for now. Can you imagine how many people would jump at the chance to totally destroy anything I've written? I'm not that crazy.

But beyond the fans, the person you are most offending is Stevie. Who's to say that she doesn't visit the board sometimes?

Honestly? I don't think she even has a computer. In a very recent interview, she mentions her typewriter. I nearly fell off my chair laughing. Typewriter!? That explains why she doesn't edit her songs too much. It's hard to do that with a typewriter!

I have not been posting on this board long enough to be stating all these strong feelings about what shouldn't be done on the Ledge.

I think you should continue to post your strong feelings. It's good for the soul. And it certainly doesn't bother me, even if you disagree with me.

[sara1998]

[i]Originally posted by
could you please use your skillful lyrics dissection methods to help me with the likes of Family Man or Big Love? thanks.
[/B]

hahahahaha!!!!LMAO!!!!

You took the words right out of my mouth. While Lindsey is, in my opinion, the best guitar player in the world, Family Man, lyrically, is the worst song I think I've ever heard.

Maria