Money

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Just out of curiosity - how do you know how Paris Hilton spends her money other than what gets reported. For all we know, she could give to many charities. In fact, many stars create charities

That is why, in the end, I say take care of myself and not worry about some person and my unsupportable notions of how they spend all of their money.

I'm just using her as an example. Many stars who donate or start charities - there is proof - a paper trail or some publicity on it. On Paris? Nothing - so unless someone comes to me with proof that she's doing at least one iota of good with her money - I'll find her useless.

I am aware that there are many wealthy people who also choose to do things anonamously - I seriously doubt Paris is one of those - but again, if someone wants to prove me wrong then please do - I would LOVE to hear that she's not just wasting space.

Ah - just saw the Hilton article - still doesn't really help me on my view of her

again, I was just sort of using her as an example. So I guess I should have just made a blanket statement more along the lines of: anyone who has oodles and oodles of money yet does NOTHING good with it, is in my opinion a jerk.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

. . . again, I was just sort of using her as an example. So I guess I should have just made a blanket statement more along the lines of: anyone who has oodles and oodles of money yet does NOTHING good with it, is in my opinion a jerk.

I agree!

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by eclipse

Education and degrees are what make you money

Oh how I wish that were true

[sparky]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

That is why, in the end, I say take care of myself and not worry about some person and my unsupportable notions of how they spend all of their money.

That's about all you can do without going nuts. It's all good and well to think that the world should evolve into some kind of utopia where we put the environment and the poor into our thinking and have them on our list of priorities. Human beings, by and large, however, are gluttons. Gimme gimme gimme. Some aren't, but lots are.

It is great to do all the things we can do to that end in our own conduct. Support companies that are responsible and thougtful in their business practices, and make personal decisions you can live with. That's what I do.

Originally Posted by amber

I can't really think of money in the same terms right now, because of the encore presentation of Oprah I watched last night, and various other things, where kids are starving and dying and have no medical care in several parts of the world

Ahh, there is nothing like comparative therapy. Or in this case, comparative guilt therapy. Though I try to be understanding, my cynical reaction to stories about poverty and famine is to wonder why the hell people with nothing continue to breed so recklessly.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

. . . . Though I try to be understanding, my cynical reaction to stories about poverty and famine is to wonder why the hell people with nothing continue to breed so recklessly.

I tend to agree. In fact, as a youngin in High School - I suggested that we make it so the people in these poor nations could have sex but not breed a la some sort of Norplant device inserted by law at age 13 Needless to say, the Christian Brothers were unamused

But, seriously, the right wingers will NEVER allow birth control to be given out as part of our aid and these people may not know any better. So, that is that.

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

That's about all you can do without going nuts. It's all good and well to think that the world should evolve into some kind of utopia where we put the environment and the poor into our thinking and have them on our list of priorities. Human beings, by and large, however, are gluttons. Gimme gimme gimme. Some aren't, but lots are.

It is great to do all the things we can do to that end in our own conduct. Support companies that are responsible and thougtful in their business practices, and make personal decisions you can live with. That's what I do.



Ahh, there is nothing like comparative therapy. Or in this case, comparative guilt therapy. Though I try to be understanding, my cynical reaction to stories about poverty and famine is to wonder why the hell people with nothing continue to breed so recklessly.

Yes, that is always my first reaction. I always think "some of that goddamned money sent anywhere, including here, better be going for free birth control and abortions". It makes me sick that those things are still taboo in many parts of the world, in many people's minds. It's like a form of human retardation, to me. It really infuriates me.

But I still know that americans waste incredible amounts of food and resources, and claim as necessity things that are not. For instance, how many resources are wasted and landfills filled with happy meal toys? No one, no kid, needs that. Let alone a kid should not be eating at McDonalds.
So I can't be totally cynical. It's pretty disgusting the way we, on average, live. And clearly, most of us think that is fine. Which I find frightening.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I tend to agree. In fact, as a youngin in High School - I suggested that we make it so the people in these poor nations could have sex but not breed a la some sort of Norplant device inserted by law at age 13 Needless to say, the Christian Brothers were unamused

But, seriously, the right wingers will NEVER allow birth control to be given out as part of our aid and these people may not know any better. So, that is that.

Forget the people in poor nations - I think EVERYONE should be sterilized young and then if you want to reproduce you should have to meet certain requirements. Namely - can you SUPPORT yourself AND a kid? Are you addicted to one or more illegal substances? Are you violent?

[sparky]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Forget the people in poor nations - I think EVERYONE should be sterilized young and then if you want to reproduce you should have to meet certain requirements. Namely - can you SUPPORT yourself AND a kid? Are you addicted to one or more illegal substances? Are you violent?

You have my vote.

[amber]

And actually, a large part of my point, which is proved here, is that even very well educated people don't know the ramifications of their consumption, or alternate but fairly equal better alternatives to their consumption, and don't put much effort, if any, into finding out. Thus, the American mindset I am speaking of. Living and consuming unconsciously, and being okay with that.
It isn't something our society values in learning, or thinks is important. In fact, our whole society teaches people the opposite, that consumption is a desireable end in itself, and the more you buy, the better you'll be, and the better your life will be. And that is where the paradigm shift needs to happen.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Forget the people in poor nations - I think EVERYONE should be sterilized young and then if you want to reproduce you should have to meet certain requirements. Namely - can you SUPPORT yourself AND a kid? Are you addicted to one or more illegal substances? Are you violent?

AMEN SISTAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eclipse]

OK I hate to do this to everyone but this discussion has reminded me of a fable that I am rather fond of...
At least it makes you think- at least?
Sorry if it offends anyone

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school. Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is you friend Audrey doing?" She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it t o your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

[amber]

How simplistic and specious. But somewhat amusing. Forgive me, It frustrates me that no one can think past a certain point on this subject, or in new innovative ways, instead of recycling ideas. And obviously, it would be awesome if people could be sterilized and screened before giving birth, but that is total fascism and would never happen. But people say "right on!" as if that could ever be a real solution. And stop there. It's odd, especially considering the brainpower here.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by amber

How simplistic and specious. But somewhat amusing. Forgive me, It frustrates me that no one can think past a certain point on this subject, or in new innovative ways, instead of recycling ideas. And obviously, it would be awesome if people could be sterilized and screened before giving birth, but that is total fascism and would never happen. But people say "right on!" as if that could ever be a real solution. And stop there. It's odd, especially considering the brainpower here.

It's not something that I'm offering as a real solution - more satire if you will. It would never happen, and it would be very extreme. Yet - I still think that people should have to be qualified to have children - that will also never happen.

It's freakin' harder to get a fishing license than it is to have a baby - that is just wrong.

[amber]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

It's not something that I'm offering as a real solution - more satire if you will. It would never happen, and it would be very extreme. Yet - I still think that people should have to be qualified to have children - that will also never happen.

It's freakin' harder to get a fishing license than it is to have a baby - that is just wrong.

Yes, I realilze that. And it's cool. I just wanted to think about something that might go a little deeper, because we all know and have already thought about how awesome it would be if your solution was effected, but we also know it would never happen, and so moving on....

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by amber

Yes, I realilze that. And it's cool. I just wanted to think about something that might go a little deeper, because we all know and have already thought about how awesome it would be if your solution was effected, but we also know it would never happen, and so moving on....

Ok - but giving free contraception? I mean condoms are readily available - there are ways to get free contraception (though its not as widely available as it needs to be) but would people be anywhere near responsible enough to actually USE contraception. There are still a lot of stupid people out there.

And a lot of guys who actually use lines like "I'll pull out" and "you won't get pregnant"