Was TITN a surprise? - Page 3

strandinthewind · #31 07-17-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiliD

Yeah, unfair to both Fleetwood Mac as a band and FMac's fans.

1) CM released her solo album ONLY BECAUSE there wasn't an active Fleetwood Mac at the time. Had Fleetwood Mac been an active entity, those songs would've been Fleetwood Mac songs, Christine wouldn't have released a solo album. (unlike Lindsey & Stevie, who PLANNED solo careers)

2) pretty much ditto for Mick...although his albums came as a result of playing live (the trip to Africa...then the Zoo started out as a "live only" band...the album was an afterthought)

3) My point. Stevie's RAL tour was placed at a higher priority than the Fleetwood Mac recording project. Which set up a situation of Stevie trying to do too much which affected the quality of both her solo career AND her work with Fleetwood Mac.

I think Stevie did RAL because FM could not make up their minds. And - she did everything she could to conbtribute to TITN once FM went ahead. I mean CM's solo effort was produced in relatively the same time period as much of RAL and CM toured to support it

So, I think some "fault" must be given to her as well.

Personally, I think and will always think LB was the cause of the five year gap and it had little to do with his solo career as much as his internal demons with the band and la Nicks.

chiliD · #32 07-17-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think Stevie did RAL because FM could not make up their minds. And - she did everything she could to conbtribute to TITN once FM went ahead. I mean CM's solo effort was produced in relatively the same time period as much of RAL and CM toured to support it

So, I think some "fault" must be given to her as well.

Personally, I think and will always think LB was the cause of the five year gap and it had little to do with his solo career as much as his internal demons with the band and la Nicks.

Sure, sure, I get the picture...in your eyes, La Nicks is blameless. No sense in going up against that brick wall any further.

strandinthewind · #33 07-17-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiliD

Sure, sure, I get the picture...in your eyes, La Nicks is blameless. No sense in going up against that brick wall any further.

LOL - I am not saying that and you know it!!!!

I am just saying people seemingly want to portray her as the be all and end all of the reason the Mac did nothing from 1982 to 1987. I am just nothing that four of the five did solo stuff and that solo stuff took away from time that could have been spent on Mac efforts.

As for La Nicks - again, I am unsure I would have been as loyal as she was esp. considering they really treated her poorly or at least with condescending tones a la the un released Tusk doc. footage.

But, yes, La Nicks efforts did take away from time when FM could have been doing somthing. I am just saying she was not alone in taking time for herself.

chiliD · #34 07-17-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

LOL - I am not saying that and you know it!!!!

I am just saying people seemingly want to portray her as the be all and end all of the reason the Mac did nothing from 1982 to 1987. I am just nothing that four of the five did solo stuff and that solo stuff took away from time that could have been spent on Mac efforts.

As for La Nicks - again, I am unsure I would have been as loyal as she was esp. considering they really treated her poorly or at least with condescending tones a la the un released Tusk doc. footage.

But, yes, La Nicks efforts did take away from time when FM could have been doing somthing. I am just saying she was not alone in taking time for herself.

And, I wasn't laying 100% blame on her...just 50%. Lindsey gets the other half. The only reason Mick & Christine even dabbled in "solo" careers was out of necessity of musical expression rather than a "grand scheme". I'd say only Mick's The Visitor project was the only real planned project he had...the I'm Not Me album was done out of "waiting" for the band. Which also must've been really frustrating, since Lindsey participated in both Mick's & Christine's solo albums at the time. If he had the time for THAT, why didn't they just do Fleetwood Mac album?

strandinthewind · #35 07-17-2006, 01:11 PM

I do not know the answer to that. Personally, I think LB always wanted to stay in the Mac, but also wanted that "I am too cool for the mainstream" aura he likes so much, esp. at that time. I think La Nicks just got fed up asking "are we ready yet?" and set sail without the band. I think CM to some extent did the same thing with her solo venture.

I do not get the sense that LB ever thought that way. Indeed, his alleged solo work became TITN. So, he seems to always come back to them when he is ready.

What a complex group of people indeed.

Sahara · #36 07-17-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priestofnothing

At the risk of being flamed here, I have come to believe after many years, this may have been one biggest times when Lindsey "had the urge not to want to help her...." Lindsey himself said there were many years of unresolved feelings between him and Stevie since they broke up 10 years before then, and that when he quit FM after Tango was released, it kind of put some closure on that.

Plus, Stevie had 3 very successful solo albums at that point, Lindsey was not enjoying that much commercial success... I could see how he wouldn't run to her aid in making this record out of jealousy or competitiveness or whatever. I think he was also resentful that she didn't spend much time in the studio for this album, he's made several snide comments about it in interviews over the years.

Just my opinion.

That's a very interesting point -- it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Is there something in there about the quality of Stevie's work from TITN and TOSOTM? I know a lot of people really don't like that album for the same sorts of reasons they dislike her work on TITN -- production wise, lack of imagination etc.
So if Lindsey had nothing to do with OSOTM and yet the same sort of thing happened on both records, is it possible that Stevie had a lot to do with it herself?

I love them both, I'm just wondering.

David · #37 07-17-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think the point was that La Nicks and LB's solo stuff detracted from FM's ability to put out more records. I think that can be said for CM and Mick's efforts as well.

I mean Stevie's BD was relatively quickly produced and the tour was very very short.

I don't think any of the 1981 projects (Law & Order, Bella Donna, The Visitor) interfered with Fleetwood Mac. After the Tusk tour, the entire band agreed to take time off, so three of the members did their own albums.

But all the solo stuff began to be a problem in later years. It was probably a vicious cycle: The less Fleetwood Mac did, the more the members did solo stuff; & the more the members did solo stuff, the less Fleetwood Mac did. Stevie's combination of albums & touring took the most time, but then again the band needed her in the studio the least for a Fleetwood Mac project. That, too, was probably a self-perpetuating cycle.

Certainly by 1985 or so, the band was unwilling to rouse itself. Finally starting work on a new album the following year was a good sign on the outside, but I don't think it compensated for the fact that several members of the band probably wished they weren't involved.

David · #38 07-17-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Personally, I think LB always wanted to stay in the Mac

I think he wanted to get out in the mid 1980s, but didn't want to brave the emotional pain of leaving a band (& leaving a band is emotionally painful, make no mistake about it).

strandinthewind · #39 07-17-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think he wanted to get out in the mid 1980s, but didn't want to brave the emotional pain of leaving a band (& leaving a band is emotionally painful, make no mistake about it).

I do too - I also think he knew that if he stayed in he could be around Stevie. After all, there are many many stories of the antics of those two on the Mirage tour that indicate they were more than friends.

HomerMcvie · #40 07-17-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do too - I also think he knew that if he stayed in he could be around Stevie. After all, there are many many stories of the antics of those two on the Mirage tour that indicate they were more than friends.

Shipper! Shipper! Shipper!!!!!!!!!!

David · #41 07-17-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priestofnothing

At the risk of being flamed here, I have come to believe after many years, this may have been one biggest times when Lindsey "had the urge not to want to help her...."

I think that unwillingness to help her trackify her demos stretched across many years, but I don't think it really manifested itself on Fleetwood Mac albums. What I hear in "Seven Wonders" & "When I See You Again" is some of the most gorgeously arranged & produced songs the band did throughout the entire 1980s. My hunch is that by that point, Lindsey was using entire Fleetwood Mac albums (including his material, Christine's material & Stevie's material) to show off his arrangement & production chops. I don't think he was deliberately slighting any of the other writers' material. You may not like his conception or execution, but that's a different kettle of fish from saying that he deliberately didn't put any Try into it.

strandinthewind · #42 07-17-2006, 01:53 PM

WHO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Johnny Stew · #43 07-17-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think Stevie did RAL because FM could not make up their minds.

Stevie has said... I believe to Jim Ladd... that she was there when the band first started discussing the idea of recording 'Tango' (just after the band, sans Stevie, collaborated on Christine's cover of "Can't Help Falling In Love"), but that by the time all the i's were dotted and the t's crossed, it was time for her tour to start.

If I recall correctly, she also said that she submitted several demos and recorded some stuff on the road that she sent to the band, in an attempt to stay connected to the project... but I think, ultimately, her personal demons had just gotten too far ahead of her, for her to seriously commit herself to 'Tango.'

Having said that though, it was "When I See You Again" that cemented my fandom. It may not be everyone's cup of tea... even some of Stevie's biggest diehards... but it sure hit me in a powerful way.

strandinthewind · #44 07-17-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

. . . Having said that though, it was "When I See You Again" that cemented my fandom. It may not be everyone's cup of tea... even some of Stevie's biggest diehards... but it sure hit me in a powerful way.

I agree that WISYA is a beautiful song and the words, to me, are great. I also think it marks the end of LB being the "master" of interpreting her work and making the instrumental nature of it into greatness a la Gypsy or Sara. I do think the music is good on Seven Wonders and WISYA though. But, it just lacked the majesty of the prior issues.

**jbrownsjr** · #45 07-17-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree that WISYA is a beautiful song and the words, to me, are great. I also think it marks the end of LB being the "master" of interpreting her work and making the instrumental nature of it into greatness a la Gypsy or Sara. I do think the music is good on Seven Wonders and WISYA though. But, it just lacked the majesty of the prior issues.

i really like this song too.. it really is a great fm song