Like or Dislike: Alice

[skcin]

People seem to have pretty strong feelings for or against this song. I've heard many put it down, saying it's one of her worst, and a couple (well, OK, mainly just Jimmy ) who absolutely love it. I'm kind of in the middle. It moves around on the "favorites" list that's in my head. Right now, I'm liking it quite a bit. That could change in a week or two.

It still has that magical quality, but it doesn't "take me there" as much as Rooms on Fire does for some reason. I think I would like it a lot better if it weren't so slow, sometimes it seems like the music is draaaaaaaaaagging.

Does anyone know if this song is about Stevie's coke addiction & rehab in 86/87? As I'm reading through the lyrics, it seems that it may be, at least partially - like she was comparing what she had just gone through to Alice In Wonderland. Has she ever confirmed this? Just wondering. Cowritten with Rupert. Huh.

I do like her vocals here. She holds some notes for a long time, which I love. "Oooh, call my naaaaaaaaaaammmme!" "I hear she went hiiiiiiiiigher!" Love it.

I'm a huge fan of the following lyric:
"Oh, no you cannot tell a gypsy, ooooh that she's no longer a member...." The stiletto line that drives everyone nuts - eh. It doesn't bother me anymore, it fits pretty well. But this is one of the few Stevie tunes where I don't really like the chorus a whole lot, it's kind of blah to me.

This tune was pretty good live, nothing groundbreaking or anything. Sounded very similar to the album version. I think she would do a good job vocally today, but the song is a bit dull to me & I don't really need to hear her do it live again.

[trackaghost]

It's about Stevie running back and forth between her solo career and Fleetwood Mac, and being so busy she can't remember who she is anymore, other than Stevie the rock star. A lot of people think the song is about drugs, and it may well be, but she herself has said it's about her dual careers.

I quite like the song, although it's not one of her very best. I think it's probably fitting it ended up a B-side to Rooms On Fire.

[foxyluva]

I adore 'Alice' so much - one of my very favourites

[Nixxxed]

I echo David's comments in the "Rooms" thread: when I got the cassingle, I listened to "Alice" many more times. And the sonic upgrade I got when I finally got the CD made me love it even more.

I especially like when she says "I'm going back ... to the other side of the mirror," meaning forsaking Wonderland for reality. I also like the "Each had their own charms..." verse which seems to be everyone's fave.

[Jyqm]

I think this song really epitomizes everything I find boring and distasteful about the TOSOTM album.

For starters, it's one of the absolute worst of Stevie's non-melodies. The chorus is actually rather catchy and nice, but lord, the verses are death. It's like sitting through a bad Wagner opera (this song is almost as long, too...). Once again this seems to be a result of somebody giving Stevie a piece of music of music and her just slapping her words over it. Which means I've got to at least partially blame Rupert Hine for this; why didn't he write a melody for this song?

Up next, the lyrics are just beyond clunky and awful. I mean, this is just plain bad songwriting. Where to even start? I guess at the beginning: "Well, I heard she flew down to the Mountain City / He said, 'That's not what I heard / I hear she went higher.'" Ugh. I wish I could say things got better after this. There's so much potential, too: the metaphor of going back through the mirror is a good one, but Stevie does absolutely nothing with it.

And then of course there's the production. Once again, I can hear some decent music just begging to break out of this song, but I feel like I've got a terrible head cold. I imagine some people feel that the tinkling keys and such give this song a "magical" feel, but it's all done so blandly, any magic there ever was is just sucked right out of it. This song sounds utterly two-dimensional. There's hardly any sense of sonic space whatsoever. I can't hear different instruments cropping up around me, playing different roles, adding different sounds in different spaces. I just see the song laid out before me on a flat canvas, splashed over with whitewash to dull the colors, and then covered with a layer of gauze. And just when you think it can't get anymore BLAH, here comes f***ing Kenny G again with another saxerectomy. Cannonball Adderley must be spinning in his grave at the thought of this instrument being abused like this.

So I suppose I'm not an "Alice" fan.

[AliceLover]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I think this song really epitomizes everything I find boring and distasteful about the TOSOTM album.

For starters, it's one of the absolute worst of Stevie's non-melodies. The chorus is actually rather catchy and nice, but lord, the verses are death. It's like sitting through a bad Wagner opera (this song is almost as long, too...). Once again this seems to be a result of somebody giving Stevie a piece of music of music and her just slapping her words over it. Which means I've got to at least partially blame Rupert Hine for this; why didn't he write a melody for this song?

Up next, the lyrics are just beyond clunky and awful. I mean, this is just plain bad songwriting. Where to even start? I guess at the beginning: "Well, I heard she flew down to the Mountain City / He said, 'That's not what I heard / I hear she went higher.'" Ugh. I wish I could say things got better after this. There's so much potential, too: the metaphor of going back through the mirror is a good one, but Stevie does absolutely nothing with it.

And then of course there's the production. Once again, I can hear some decent music just begging to break out of this song, but I feel like I've got a terrible head cold. I imagine some people feel that the tinkling keys and such give this song a "magical" feel, but it's all done so blandly, any magic there ever was is just sucked right out of it. This song sounds utterly two-dimensional. There's hardly any sense of sonic space whatsoever. I can't hear different instruments cropping up around me, playing different roles, adding different sounds in different spaces. I just see the song laid out before me on a flat canvas, splashed over with whitewash to dull the colors, and then covered with a layer of gauze. And just when you think it can't get anymore BLAH, here comes f***ing Kenny G again with another saxerectomy. Cannonball Adderley must be spinning in his grave at the thought of this instrument being abused like this.

So I suppose I'm not an "Alice" fan.

The tinkling keys are much more apparant on the Live Versions (Chorus) and thats one of the reasons why I like it so much more live...you should take a listen sometime. If you want I could email you a good one.

[JazmenFlowers]

as I said in the other thread, this song, along with Juliet and Ooh My Love are my favorites. I love the atmosphere it creates...love the lyrics the most.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by AliceLover

The tinkling keys are much more apparant on the Live Versions (Chorus) and thats one of the reasons why I like it so much more live...you should take a listen sometime. If you want I could email you a good one.

Toss one up on YouSendIt, and I'll be glad to take a listen! I probably won't like the lyrics or the Wagnerian non-melody any more, but I imagine the music itself would sound much better in a live setting with actual instruments playing through amps.

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I think this song really epitomizes everything I find boring and distasteful about the TOSOTM album.

For starters, it's one of the absolute worst of Stevie's non-melodies. The chorus is actually rather catchy and nice, but lord, the verses are death. It's like sitting through a bad Wagner opera (this song is almost as long, too...). Once again this seems to be a result of somebody giving Stevie a piece of music of music and her just slapping her words over it. Which means I've got to at least partially blame Rupert Hine for this; why didn't he write a melody for this song?

Up next, the lyrics are just beyond clunky and awful. I mean, this is just plain bad songwriting. Where to even start? I guess at the beginning: "Well, I heard she flew down to the Mountain City / He said, 'That's not what I heard / I hear she went higher.'" Ugh. I wish I could say things got better after this. There's so much potential, too: the metaphor of going back through the mirror is a good one, but Stevie does absolutely nothing with it.

And then of course there's the production. Once again, I can hear some decent music just begging to break out of this song, but I feel like I've got a terrible head cold. I imagine some people feel that the tinkling keys and such give this song a "magical" feel, but it's all done so blandly, any magic there ever was is just sucked right out of it. This song sounds utterly two-dimensional. There's hardly any sense of sonic space whatsoever. I can't hear different instruments cropping up around me, playing different roles, adding different sounds in different spaces. I just see the song laid out before me on a flat canvas, splashed over with whitewash to dull the colors, and then covered with a layer of gauze. And just when you think it can't get anymore BLAH, here comes f***ing Kenny G again with another saxerectomy. Cannonball Adderley must be spinning in his grave at the thought of this instrument being abused like this.

So I suppose I'm not an "Alice" fan.

Hey stop ruining songs for me! No really though, I don't agree with you here but I always welcome your insight.
Sometimes I'm weary of reading these threads when I adore a song for fear of someone saying something that may be true but it's all really just an opinion. I mean, what is truth when it comes to your opinon on a song? You either like or you don't or you're somewhere in the middle.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

Hey stop ruining songs for me! No really though, I don't agree with you here but I always welcome your insight.
Sometimes I'm weary of reading these threads when I adore a song for fear of someone saying something that may be true but it's all really just an opinion. I mean, what is truth when it comes to your opinon on a song? You either like or you don't or you're somewhere in the middle.

Well, if there's a "When I See You Again" thread anytime soon, I'll be one of the two people in the cheering section. No accounting for taste. As you said, there's no "truth" in whether or not you should like a song. If people like "Alice," more power to them (although I really do have scratch my head when people say they like these lyrics; I think if I ever wrote anything like "Alice" I'd be embarrassed to show it to anybody).

Does anybody with broadband have an mp3 of a live performance of "Alice" they could post somewhere? I don't want him to waste hours uploading it on a dial-up connection just for me.

[wheart]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I think this song really epitomizes everything I find boring and distasteful about the TOSOTM album.

For starters, it's one of the absolute worst of Stevie's non-melodies. The chorus is actually rather catchy and nice, but lord, the verses are death. It's like sitting through a bad Wagner opera (this song is almost as long, too...). Once again this seems to be a result of somebody giving Stevie a piece of music of music and her just slapping her words over it. Which means I've got to at least partially blame Rupert Hine for this; why didn't he write a melody for this song?

Up next, the lyrics are just beyond clunky and awful. I mean, this is just plain bad songwriting. Where to even start? I guess at the beginning: "Well, I heard she flew down to the Mountain City / He said, 'That's not what I heard / I hear she went higher.'" Ugh. I wish I could say things got better after this. There's so much potential, too: the metaphor of going back through the mirror is a good one, but Stevie does absolutely nothing with it.

And then of course there's the production. Once again, I can hear some decent music just begging to break out of this song, but I feel like I've got a terrible head cold. I imagine some people feel that the tinkling keys and such give this song a "magical" feel, but it's all done so blandly, any magic there ever was is just sucked right out of it. This song sounds utterly two-dimensional. There's hardly any sense of sonic space whatsoever. I can't hear different instruments cropping up around me, playing different roles, adding different sounds in different spaces. I just see the song laid out before me on a flat canvas, splashed over with whitewash to dull the colors, and then covered with a layer of gauze. And just when you think it can't get anymore BLAH, here comes f***ing Kenny G again with another saxerectomy. Cannonball Adderley must be spinning in his grave at the thought of this instrument being abused like this.

So I suppose I'm not an "Alice" fan.

Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?? Honestly, I couldn't agree more. The song is a slug fest, as is most of that album. My favorite part of TOSOTM is the cover

[Sorcerer386]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

It's about Stevie running back and forth between her solo career and Fleetwood Mac, and being so busy she can't remember who she is anymore, other than Stevie the rock star. A lot of people think the song is about drugs, and it may well be, but she herself has said it's about her dual careers.

That's interesting, I never heard that. To me, Alice is so blatantly about drugs and her drug habit that I don't see much else. "I heard she went higher / She depended on her friends to tell her when to stop it." Didn't she have a sort of intervention as such? "Like Alice through the looking glass / She used to know who she was," like drugs had completely changed her, but she does remember what she was like without them. "Each had their own charm / Hidden beneath a solid piece of armor / And a steel plated vest / Some carry a stiletto in their garter / Along with everything else that they carry." I get that she's saying everyone had their own drugs...and I may be overreaching here, but I always take the "stiletto" as a needle for shooting up. Also, for the second verse, does anyone know what it means? It seems like someone told her that she's no longer a big part of Fleetwood Mac or something.

Anyway, I feel a distinction needs to be made between live and album. Live = great, album = pretty much everything Jyqm said. It feels more fleshed out live and flows a hell of a lot better, especially the chorus. She's not all over the place like she can't find where each word is supposed to go within the song. MUCH MUCH better live, definitely.

[SapphireSister]

I'll second what a lot of you are saying...When I first listened to TOSOTM I did not like Alice at all. You are right Paula, it drags. But when I got my first Mirror show and heard it live I was reborn and I fell in love with this song. It is competley different live, it literally comes alive! The lyrics were great to begin with but as I've mentioned previously if I don't like the music to a song it's rare I can connect with it no matter how great the lyrics are. So when I fell in love with the music (live) magic happened and Alice welcomed me with open arms.
I have never heard this relating to drugs but I've heard numerous accounts from Stevie herself referring to "The other side of the mirror" as switching back and forth between her solo career and FM. Also, her grandma's name was Alice.
Favorite lyrics:
"Like Alice through the Looking Glass...
She used to know who she was" although I'm not sure if I ever knew who I was but I'm learning...
And I love the stiletto in the garter line!

The highlight of this song is hearing it live when she yells "Aliiiiiiiiiiiiice". Sensational! Too bad she was so out of it I would love to hear her sing Alice Klonopin free.

Here are Stevie's own words about Alice:
"The name came, really, from the song Alice. And I must give credit where credit is due... my manager Tony Dimitriades, when we were over in England, said "What about 'The Other Side of the Mirror'?' Because, in Alice, it says, when she finally has had it when being over in Wonderland, [sings] 'Alright says Alice, I'm going back to the other side of the mirror' and I thought to myself, well, that pretty much encompasses my entire life. I'm constantly going back and forth from one side of the mirror to another. Between Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks, and then there's of course the cusp, where I do the things I do, like painting and collecting things and drawing and making blankets, and doing silly stuff that probably keeps me sane... I thought, well, Alice... your grandmother's name was Alice, everybody tells everybody that you look a lot like her, I know you are a lot like her, since you spent half of your life with her, and I dedicated the record to Alice my grandma. So why not call it The Other Side of the Mirror? She died a few months ago, so she's on the other side of the mirror now. The other side of the real mirror. And I know in my heart that she's looking down, probably saying 'I wish I could've lasted a few more months so that I could have held this in my hands and said, this is my granddaughter and she gave me this record."
~Stevie Nicks, Castle Walls interview

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by Sorcerer386

That's interesting, I never heard that. To me, Alice is so blatantly about drugs and her drug habit that I don't see much else. "I heard she went higher / She depended on her friends to tell her when to stop it." Didn't she have a sort of intervention as such? "Like Alice through the looking glass / She used to know who she was," like drugs had completely changed her, but she does remember what she was like without them. "Each had their own charm / Hidden beneath a solid piece of armor / And a steel plated vest / Some carry a stiletto in their garter / Along with everything else that they carry." I get that she's saying everyone had their own drugs...and I may be overreaching here, but I always take the "stiletto" as a needle for shooting up. Also, for the second verse, does anyone know what it means? It seems like someone told her that she's no longer a big part of Fleetwood Mac or something.

Wow, I never heard or thought Alice was about drugs but now that you've mentioned it it's really got me thinking, it absolutely could be! As I posted above Stevie claims this song is about going back and forth to the other side of the mirror (solo and FM) but often times Stevie's songs have more than one theme and I could see the drugs being a theme that she has chosen NOT to discuss when asked about this song. In 1989 she wasn't as forthcoming about her drug use as she is nowadays. In fact when I heard a press conference for TOSOTM in 1989 she totally avoided a drug question and said she didn't want to talk about it. Anyway thanks for putting a new twist on this song and reminding me that there is so much going on in Stevie's songs that she doesn't talk about and sometimes I really need to "read between her lines".

[TheBlueLamp]

Alice is in my top five Stevie songs. I find it to be sad and dreamlike. However, I think it drags too much when it's performed live. Maybe I've just heard a not so great version, but I think the album version is much much better.