Bush Lies

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

I tend to believe we are all "just bricks in the Wall".

Do you want your pudding now

[irishgrl]

I think I would agree that many people wont vote Dem because of the Abortion issue, and that is of course different from greed, but there is a very real argument that a large percentage of the Republican voting base is comprised of business owners and/or investor and/or corporate types who believe the Republican party is sympathetic to their wish of assisting business and NOT social programs geared toward the poor or disadvantaged.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by madformac

As I pointed out earlier Suze, I think the perception of the average American has actually gotten better since Bush took office.

I've always worked on the factor that whatever the country is, a person is smart and people, in general, are stupid. Use it with any country and it's always the case. Try it out and you'll see it works..

But I know from talking to others, especially other Brits and Europeans that they in general didn't particularly like Americans. I think there are so many reasons but the main ones being based in three areas 1) America is a very young and new country in historical terms but it has become very prosperous and powerful in a short period of time. 2) There is a perception that America thinks it's the best country in the world and superior to all others i.e. arrogant and "if it's not American or invented in America it ain't ****" 3) Americans are rude and self opinionated (this is mainly a French argument which is hilarious because they invented those characteristics and display them better than anyone!).

My opinion why America is so despised is due to the fact you basically have an Empire right now. It will fall of course, like the Roman and British ones did, and when it does everyone will love you again. Eventually China and maybe India will emerge and take over the throne of most hated country. It's human jealousy really.

BUT, lately the feelings have changed towards Americans for the better and it's thanks to "W". People actually feel sympathy and feel sorry because they can see America is really now a dictatorship run by an uneducated Texan chimp. They take pity on the average American and I've noticed it, especially in London.

Americans do think America is the best country. Many of us are rude and egocentric. In general, your friends are right. But Americans are spoon fed this propoganda in public school from a young age so you cannot blame us entirely for our point of view. Adults should know better and get their information from various sources before forming an opinion but sadly many do not. Many puppet the voices they hear on Faux news, or some other news source, without thinking critically about policy at all. Also without checking the BBC or another reliable international news source. Why do that when American news is the best and right? I think that is the prevalent albeit false belief.

Anyway, thanks for reminding me of the sympathetic viewpoint that has materialized. I forgot you said that before!

Personally I believe we are a great country with a sh*tty government.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Do you want your pudding now

hate pudding...and I don't care for meat either!

Brian "Mother should I trust the government?" j.

ps-Been on a major Pink Floyd "The Wall" trip the past week or so...Finding a mint copy of the LP Sleeve (Toshiba/EMI Japanese Import) CD version of "The Wall" (Paid $12.99 for it in mint "Sealed" condition, The Toshiba/EMI LP Sleeve versions of "The Wall" usually run upwards of $100.00) has that effect, Love the sleeves for the CD's, Same as the original vinyl sleeve and the CD's look identical to the LP's.

[amber]

Originally Posted by madformac

self opinionated

What does this mean? Who else's opinion would someone have? *a real question, not a sarcastic one*

Originally Posted by Strand

I maintain to this day that the reason Kerry lost was not because W won - Kerry lost because he had no plan that dramatically differed from W, which BTW makes Kerry only slightly less of a better candidate than W.

I maintain to this day that Kerry didn't lose.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by amber

What does this mean? Who else's opinion would someone have? *a real question, not a sarcastic one*



I maintain to this day that Kerry didn't lose.

And neither did Gore. Ponder for a moment what life would be like if Gore had been elected. :sobs: Amber, get the green issue of Vanity Faire if you can. There is info in there on environmentally friendly companies. Gore has a great essay in there. There's all kinds of eco stuff in it.

[amber]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

And neither did Gore. Ponder for a moment what life would be like if Gore had been elected. :sobs: Amber, get the green issue of Vanity Faire if you can. There is info in there on environmentally friendly companies. Gore has a great essay in there. There's all kinds of eco stuff in it.

:sobs, too:
Really? That sounds good, maybe I will. I don't usually buy VF or the like. I forgot they have articles.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by amber

. . . I maintain to this day that Kerry didn't lose.

Perhaps not. But, that really is beside the issue here, which is, at least to me, that if W was so bad on the issues, Kerry should have won by a Landslide and that did not happen even if all the voter fraud stuff is true. I think the facts support the election was Kerry's to lose. I get that playing to the middle is how you get the swing votes you need to win. But, I think these swing voters saw no real difference between W and Kerry or at least not enough of one to make a significant difference. Also, Kerry did IMO stupid things like put his war record out there when he knew it was not 100% solid. I get that Kerry went to Nam and W was a pu$$y back at home. But, Kerry got a purple heart for wound that essentially required a band aid for treatment and Rove went to town with that. I think the smarter thing for Kerry to have done was say he served and list his honors and what he got them for rather than asserting a rather W-esq "Mission Accomplished" bravada about it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

And neither did Gore. Ponder for a moment what life would be like if Gore had been elected. :sobs: Amber, get the green issue of Vanity Faire if you can. There is info in there on environmentally friendly companies. Gore has a great essay in there. There's all kinds of eco stuff in it.

I, too, often wonder about Gore. Clinton was not exactly a pioneer in environmental policy, though certainly he was better than W. Would Gore have gone the same route as Clinton - who can say for sure.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

And neither did Gore. Ponder for a moment what life would be like if Gore had been elected. :sobs: Amber, get the green issue of Vanity Faire if you can. There is info in there on environmentally friendly companies. Gore has a great essay in there. There's all kinds of eco stuff in it.

but I hated Al "I created the cheesy-poof, Casual dress Fridays, Mars the planet & winged tampons...Dont forget I created the internet too" Gore, Mainly due to in part to his egomanical wife Tipper, aka "That P.M.R.C. C**t".

"See the building...This album cover says burn building, burn..."-Tipper Gore referring to Def Leppard's "Pyromania" album cover during a congressional meeting over "obscene music lyrics"...Yeah Tipper, what a tool!!!

[madformac]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

Americans are rude. So are the French, English, South Americans, Canadians (Okay, they are rumoured to be the nicest people ever, so...maybe not. ), Chinese, Swiss, German, African...etc. We are all human.

In my experience the South Africans are the rudest (the education system means they don't know any better) , followed by the French (they do know better but are extremely rude anyway), the Welsh (but only to the English), The English (especially to the French) and then maybe the Americans. The Germans can be rude but it's usually directed to the English.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Americans do think America is the best country. Many of us are rude and egocentric. In general, your friends are right. But Americans are spoon fed this propoganda in public school from a young age so you cannot blame us entirely for our point of view. Adults should know better and get their information from various sources before forming an opinion but sadly many do not. .

Lindsey pretty much summed it up in "Murrow". Most Americans generally believe US news channels to be factually correct. "Well it's on CNN so it must be true" for example. But, when you consider most news channels of the world, especially America and the UK, are effectively government controlled, its perfect for propaganda and making an illusion appear to be factually correct. The BBC is reasonably partial but I believe some of the US networks are under the government thumb.

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Anyway, thanks for reminding me of the sympathetic viewpoint that has materialized. I forgot you said that before!
.

I actually think the majority of Americans I've met are very nice. In Europe anyway. I've met a few assholes in Florida.

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Personally I believe we are a great country with a sh*tty government.

I think the same can be said for the UK too lately.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by madformac

In my experience the South Africans are the rudest (the education system means they don't know any better) , followed by the French (they do know better but are extremely rude anyway), the Welsh (but only to the English), The English (especially to the French) and then maybe the Americans. The Germans can be rude but it's usually directed to the English.

Frogs, I meant the French like a fun hobby for all? The Frogs, err, The French need some country to over throw 'em (Again!!!) just turn the Eiffel Tower into the World's Largest Oil Derrick...Betcha Fuhrer Bush would be for that huh?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Perhaps not. But, that really is beside the issue here, which is, at least to me, that if W was so bad on the issues, Kerry should have won by a Landslide and that did not happen even if all the voter fraud stuff is true. I think the facts support the election was Kerry's to lose. I get that playing to the middle is how you get the swing votes you need to win. But, I think these swing voters saw no real difference between W and Kerry or at least not enough of one to make a significant difference. Also, Kerry did IMO stupid things like put his war record out there when he knew it was not 100% solid. I get that Kerry went to Nam and W was a pu$$y back at home. But, Kerry got a purple heart for wound that essentially required a band aid for treatment and Rove went to town with that. I think the smarter thing for Kerry to have done was say he served and list his honors and what he got them for rather than asserting a rather W-esq "Mission Accomplished" bravada about it.

"even if all the voter fraud stuff is true" ???? I think its a given that it IS true and its the ONLY reason Monkey Boy is leading this circus.

[irishgrl]

I myself watch PBS and listen to Public Radio. I dont trust the mainstream networks for any news.