Madformac

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Beautifully put, my dear.

As far as the threads about Stevie's father are concerned, I think they're created and comments are made by people with their hearts in the right place, but you have to be wary of when enough is enough; of when you cross the line from giving your condolences to getting just a little too personal about the whole thing. I just feel that people should express their well wishes for Stevie and her family during this time, and leave it at that for privacy's sake. And - I find it sad that people feel the need to have arguments in such threads. Have a little respect for the Nicks', people, and don't taint threads like that with personal bull****.

I agree

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I think the negativity started a few years ago, and because the monster was fed, it just kept growing and spawning.

The problem seems to be how negativity is interpreted, or more accurately, categorized. A lot of people get mad (& say so) when someone posts a negative opinion about something relating to the band. You can't have an interesting message board unless people are left alone to post negative things about the topic (although the negative views aren't what make the board interesting -- the wide variety of opinions is what makes the board interesting).

the other type of negativity is the insulting stuff that is directed at other posters. That's a whole different kettle of fish. When it's not just joking around (a few weeks ago, I jokingly called everyone a moron in the survivor threads & I think everyone saw it was a joke), it builds up in a person's mind & can hurt. Some people here are continually ripped new assholes, & it's very personal & quite ugly & I can't understand why they don't run screaming from this place.

[macfanken]

Originally Posted by David

(a few weeks ago, I jokingly called everyone a moron in the survivor threads & I think everyone saw it was a joke)

That was a joke?

[Johnny Stew]

It was most definitely the latter type of negativity I was referring to David.

Though I'd venture to say that some posters do take the opportunity to express negative comments that are outwardly directed at the band (or its members and their songs), but are ultimately meant as jabs towards other Ledgies.

[David]

Originally Posted by macfanken

That was a joke?

Shut the hell up, you rotten sonofabitch, you!!

I hope Cascadia lets rip & the demons of the Ninth Circle drag you into the abyss!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by David

I hope Cascadia lets rip & the demons of the Ninth Circle drag you into the abyss!

You know, if anyone's going to insult me, I'd want it to be you!

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

It was most definitely the latter type of negativity I was referring to David.

Though I'd venture to say that some posters do take the opportunity to express negative comments that are outwardly directed at the band (or its members and their songs), but are ultimately meant as jabs towards other Ledgies.

I often think of Valerie Hurter, back in grade school. I never heard her insult a classmate. I know you don't know her, but I wonder where she is nowadays. She'd be about my age (67-68). I hope she's brilliant & alive & blessed & that the words of the wise are as goads to her & that she understands what Epictetus meant by "good."

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

You know, if anyone's going to insult me, I'd want it to be you!

Thank you! But I couldn't possibly insult people who don't live near a major megathrust-type subduction zone.

I mean . . . what would I say?

You're probably closer to an intraplate region or, at best, to a strike-slip transform-type zone, & I ask you: How do you build an insult out of that? I could mention something about your lithosphere, I suppose.

[macfanken]

Originally Posted by David

Thank you! But I couldn't possibly insult people who don't live near a major megathrust-type subduction zone.

I think you like that about me... the fact that I live in an area that's susceptible to earthquakes of biblical proportions!

[tuigirl]

I think a lot of this negativity comes from not being respectful to other people in that there's no /little "self censoring"..this is perhaps more evident with newer Ledgies who might not know the rules, when jumping onto a thread. I'm thinking maybe the "older" Ledgies (those whov'e been around for longer, not nesessarily age) have it more under control. There have been some odd threads of late questioning Ledgie morals/the grossest Ledgie etc, which could be interpreted funny by some, or completely off by others.
It does seem, that while the band is off the road and there's no particular news coming out to discuss in a logical and interesting manner, the threads tend to end up in the gutter..... but utimately, it's up to individuals to keep the tone and content of threads from sinking into the depths, by self control and just thinking of others before hitting that send button

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by tuigirl

I think a lot of this negativity comes from not being respectful to other people in that there's no /little "self censoring"..this is perhaps more evident with newer Ledgies who might not know the rules, when jumping onto a thread. I'm thinking maybe the "older" Ledgies (those whov'e been around for longer, not nesessarily age) have it more under control. There have been some odd threads of late questioning Ledgie morals/the grossest Ledgie etc, which could be interpreted funny by some, or completely off by others.
It does seem, that while the band is off the road and there's no particular news coming out to discuss in a logical and interesting manner, the threads tend to end up in the gutter..... but utimately, it's up to individuals to keep the tone and content of threads from sinking into the depths, by self control and just thinking of others before hitting that send button

You nailed it, Mich. A lot of people say whatever the hell the want to and if hurts or offends anyone, that's their problem. While it's impossible not to tick off people at one point or another (I know I have), and certainly it's no fun to constantly walk on eggshells, there IS such a thing as consideration of others. I mean, at least make an effort. Self-censoring would pretty much solve 95% of the problems here, but suggest that to some people and they rip you a new one. How DARE you try to "limit" them. Their answer: Just stop reading it! OK, fine. Here you have an example of someone who did just that, and he's not the only one. Too bad the Ledge is the lesser for it.

I'm not one of the Ledgies who's been around for 8 years but I know some who have been and they pretty much have expressed this sentiment to me. There was even a brief time when I felt continually attacked and considered stopping posting, but then I just decided I'd rather duke it out, and I'm glad I did. I'm like that, but not everyone is.

I do agree that this little tiff in the Stevie thread must not have been the reason he's leaving, because it really was just a semantical deal and not that huge. It must have just been the straw that broke the camel's back.

That said, I still think the Ledge is THE definitive Mac board. While perhaps it's not at the best place right now, it's certainly still enjoyable in many ways. I still find it fun for the most part. Also, it's very possible that as time passes, the pendulum will swing back up again and all the pettiness, rudeness, gutter-sniping, and generalized moronic behavior will die down. You know, everything goes in cycles. So let's all hang in there!

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I know, Brian (estranged4life) was going to leave

time to time, Especially with all the negativity on here as of late (Which is minor to the stress in my life on the "other side of the mirror...errr...Screen").

As of late this has been the most negative I have ever seen the Ledge since I started posting here 4 years ago.

I dont need anymore negativity in my life...I post here out of some kinda "wack-a-loon self-preservation" therapy if you say, Makes me feel like I can connect with the folkz here instead of always feeling there's only NOW 1 person in the whole world who I connect with.

I also stayed just because I felt welcomed and a slight bit needed here...Being needed at this time in my life is something I openly welcome since the one person who needed me the most is no longer walking with us mortals.

So for now I am trying to hang in there and stay an active member of the Ledge

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Also, it's very possible that as time passes, the pendulum will swing back up again and all the pettiness, rudeness, gutter-sniping, and generalized moronic behavior and will die down. You know, everything goes in cycles. So let's all hang in there!

I think there needs to be a change, too. Although, of the things you mentioned, I welcome some of the moronic behavior because I think that as long as it isn't intended to be offensive it has the potential to be a great means of escape from the real world, something I've been seeking out a lot in the past couple of months. I have to disagree (though I know you didn't say this) that the grossest/immoral threads have anything to do with the rift I've observed, but I could be wrong. But I really don't think that anything Bobo has started has been responsible. I thought it was pretty clear that he means no offense to anyone; he likes to make trouble in very harmless ways, IMO.

In my mind, the root of the problem are some of the more serious quarrels, and not the ones where you get the impression that the parties understand one another and just want a healthy debate but the passive aggressive or just plain aggressive ones. The worst thing for me was watching the whole Amber versus Lux & Darrelle thing play out. Actually, it was pretty painful for me. I think it's an example of something that shouldn't have been public. I know I am guilty of that, too, though. I shouldn't have started what was a serious argument with you not too long ago in one of those Ledge forums in that moderator thread. It seems like too many of those types of quarrels are being played out in public and maybe we would all be more comfortable if they didn't. If those things were taken care of privately and we didn't all know the details, then, ignorance would be bliss?

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

I also stayed just because I felt welcomed and a slight bit needed here...Being needed at this time in my life is something I openly welcome since the one person who needed me the most is no longer walking with us mortals.

So for now I am trying to hang in there and stay an active member of the Ledge

You certainly are welcome and "a slight bit needed here," Brian. At the same time, I don't want anyone to feel bad about leaving if he or she is no longer happy with it.

[chiliD]

I left a LONNNNNNNG time ago...my computer just keeps coming back and posts for me. "HAL" has taken over.


..."Dave, will I dream?"


MFM...get back here! (I know exactly how you feel...I've felt it more times than I can count!)