Juvenile death penalty unconstitutional

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I said how can you not want the columbine kids executed and then I thought it was funny that they executed themselves first.

Yeah. The mentally ill and depressed are ****ing hilarious.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I know there tons of other possibly more progressive societies, but in the case of the death penalty I really don't care how much more progressive other countries are.

Then perhaps you could consider moving to say, Saudi Arabia. They fall into line with your beliefs much better.
Of course if you choose to stay here, you'll just have to deal. Because we are progressing.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Lux

I don't see anything funny nor ironic about those kids killing themselves. I don't care what their crime is, execution is never funny. I still struggle to see how anyone who supports the death penalty can maintain disgust at crimes of murder. To support the death penalty is to support murder and maybe this is too black and white but in my mind that disqualifies you of the right to be disgusted at the initial act. There is no way those boys should have been executed. Their crime was such a terrible act and the last response to it should be murder. Governments should not stoop as low as the murderers they're condemning.

Anyway, we've discussed this before but the main point here is that those boys' suicides is so far from funny that it really doesn't do your case any good to present it as such.

It's a fact that one of them was completely dosed on Prozac.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Lux

Was that discovered? I had never heard that. Well ****. I suffered for what seemed like eternity on Paxil and often had to be physically controlled and prevented from damaging things. I know my boyfriend had a good re-think of things when I tried to throw his computer out the window. I can't say that I was ever on the verge of going that far but it can't be understated, the very real damages of those kinds of medication. I shudder to think that this would not be taken into consideration, among many other factors. Execution? My god.

Yup. Anything that involves the neuropathic transmitters in the brain should not be taken lightly. And I know it has helped many people and harmed many others.
One child's toxicology report was completely sealed. The other was on Luvox.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Yeah. The mentally ill and depressed are ****ing hilarious.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Lux

I don't see anything funny nor ironic about those kids killing themselves. I don't care what their crime is, execution is never funny. I still struggle to see how anyone who supports the death penalty can maintain disgust at crimes of murder. To support the death penalty is to support murder and maybe this is too black and white but in my mind that disqualifies you of the right to be disgusted at the initial act. There is no way those boys should have been executed. Their crime was such a terrible act and the last response to it should be murder. Governments should not stoop as low as the murderers they're condemning.

Anyway, we've discussed this before but the main point here is that those boys' suicides is so far from funny that it really doesn't do your case any good to present it as such.

Yes, it's hard for me to understand, too.

Okay, I have something else that's related to this very thing on my mind for the moment. Y'all will have to take it from there because I have to run to class, but it seems that a lot of people on here have zero respect for people who are pro-death penalty. Lux just said that she feels someone doesn't have the right to be disgusted at the initial act of murder if he or she supports the death penalty. Now, my question is, what if Nancy came on here and refuted that, saying that she strongly disagrees and is for the death penalty but against murder, how would y'all react? Would y'all be respectful toward her as y'all always seem to be, or would you be honest and repeat what you've already said? It seems to me that you've condemned her (and others who are for capital punishment) for believing that way. The whole thing seems hypocritcal to me because y'all act like you do respect her and consider her a conservative worth talking to, yet many of you ridicule and denounce conservatives as a whole when you don't have to deal with her in a thread. Maybe it's easy for me to step back from this and look at it because this issue might not be as personal as the gay rights issue for me or very many others. It's very easy for me to say that I don't tolerate people being against me getting married or generally have equality because those people refuse to tolerate me first. If they're not going to put up with me in the least, why should I put up with them? As one of my English teachers once said, turning the other cheek just to get that one slapped as well is never really beneficial. But I'm trying to look at capital punishment and the basic idea of being respectful of other's opinions as long as it's not a matter of them trying to run your own life for you in a philosophical way. And this is not an attack on any of you in the least. I'm just throwing this out and I want to see what y'all have to say whenever I get back to a computer today. It's just something I wanted to discuss.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Yeah. The mentally ill and depressed are ****ing hilarious.

I <3 you. I'm sorry you and your friends were so close to this.

The two girls from my class who were most picked on are both dead. One from suicide at 16 because of a love triangle and the other of an accident in her early 20s, she was driving extremely recklessly and hit a boulder. Kids should really be taught not to pick on others. They say kids are mean, but they really learn this behavior from their parents. They're the real meanies.

I was picked on as a kid and I know first hand how damaging it is. In no way does this excuse what these boys did but it adds to just how unfunny the incident was.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

I <3 you. I'm sorry you and your friends were so close to this.

The two girls from my class who were most picked on are both dead. One from suicide at 16 because of a love triangle and the other of an accident in her early 20s, she was driving extremely recklessly and hit a boulder. Kids should really be taught not to pick on others. They say kids are mean, but they really learn this behavior from their parents. They're the real meanies.

I was picked on as a kid and I know first hand how damaging it is. In no way does this excuse what these boys did but it adds to just how unfunny the incident was.

I realize the authorities cannot always catch it when it happens,but I think the authorities in the schools somethimes turn the other way when it happens and do not slam the bullies. I base this on personal experience. In fact, I saw some teachers actually validating it or supporting it - not fighting, just general guff, which can hurt more. I am certainly not saying all teachers are like this. I am just basing this on personal experience.

I also think some parents like it when their kid is "cock of the walk." So, they support that "my country beehive hair is bigger than your's" attitude.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I realize the authorities cannot always catch it when it happens,but I think the authorities in the schools somethimes turn the other way when it happens and do not slam the bullies. I base this on personal experience. In fact, I saw some teachers actually validating it or supporting it - not fighting, just general guff, which can hurt more. I am certainly not saying all teachers are like this. I am just basing this on personal experience.

I also think some parents like it when their kid is "cock of the walk." So, they support that "my country beehive hair is bigger than your's" attitude.

You're right, this does happen. The popularity contest does not end in high school. It begins there.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Exactly.

Yes, it's hard for me to understand, too.

Okay, I have something else that's related to this very thing on my mind for the moment. Y'all will have to take it from there because I have to run to class, but it seems that a lot of people on here have zero respect for people who are pro-death penalty. Lux just said that she feels someone doesn't have the right to be disgusted at the initial act of murder if he or she supports the death penalty. Now, my question is, what if Nancy came on here and refuted that, saying that she strongly disagrees and is for the death penalty but against murder, how would y'all react? Would y'all be respectful toward her as y'all always seem to be, or would you be honest and repeat what you've already said? It seems to me that you've condemned her (and others who are for capital punishment) for believing that way. The whole thing seems hypocritcal to me because y'all act like you do respect her and consider her a conservative worth talking to, yet many of you ridicule and denounce conservatives as a whole when you don't have to deal with her in a thread. Maybe it's easy for me to step back from this and look at it because this issue might not be as personal as the gay rights issue for me or very many others. It's very easy for me to say that I don't tolerate people being against me getting married or generally have equality because those people refuse to tolerate me first. If they're not going to put up with me in the least, why should I put up with them? As one of my English teachers once said, turning the other cheek just to get that one slapped as well is never really beneficial. But I'm trying to look at capital punishment and the basic idea of being respectful of other's opinions as long as it's not a matter of them trying to run your own life for you in a philosophical way. And this is not an attack on any of you in the least. I'm just throwing this out and I want to see what y'all have to say whenever I get back to a computer today. It's just something I wanted to discuss.

You'll have to forgive me, Hillary, but I find it very difficult to respect the opinion people hold of actually supporting the termination of another human being's life. I, personally, don't think that particular opinion warrants any respect from me and it never will.

Unfortunately, support of the death penalty is, in itself, hypocrisy. What kind of message is being sent to society that it's wrong for someone to take the life of another, yet the government can do it? Gimme a bloody break. It's sickening and only shows how we haven't grown as a society.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

You'll have to forgive me, Hillary, but I find it very difficult to respect the opinion people hold of actually supporting the termination of another human being's life. I, personally, don't think that particular opinion warrants any respect from me and it never will.

Unfortunately, support of the death penalty is, in itself, hypocrisy. What kind of message is being sent to society that it's wrong for someone to take the life of another, yet the government can do it? Gimme a bloody break. It's sickening and only shows how we haven't grown as a society.

I do not think anyone is arguing that people should not zealously support their positions. I think the point is that everyone around here at one time or another and others far more often than others, are just downright rude when someone expresses an opinion. A hypothetical example of what I am talking about is this exchange:

I think the DP is warranted and I support it because if someone killed my kid, I would want them dead. That may be wrong to some, but it is how I feel and the law supports me.

the rude response:

You are a sick freak. Murder is muder and you will never be right no matter what your assinine reasoning is - so shut up and how dare you call yourself a Christian when what you are is a MURDERER

the polite response:

I see where you are coming from, but I cannot agree because I think it is wrong to take someone else's life no matter how heinous a crime they committed.

I think alot of the venom comes from people, myself included, thinking they are going to change someone's mind and then when they do not the polite way, the smugness and the snarkiness comes forward. I know I try to keep it in check, but I fail sometimes. So, I guess all we can do is try to be careful in our posts if we do not want to be rude. I think that is what Hillary is saying.

[amber]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Exactly.

Yes, it's hard for me to understand, too.

Okay, I have something else that's related to this very thing on my mind for the moment. Y'all will have to take it from there because I have to run to class, but it seems that a lot of people on here have zero respect for people who are pro-death penalty. Lux just said that she feels someone doesn't have the right to be disgusted at the initial act of murder if he or she supports the death penalty. Now, my question is, what if Nancy came on here and refuted that, saying that she strongly disagrees and is for the death penalty but against murder, how would y'all react? Would y'all be respectful toward her as y'all always seem to be, or would you be honest and repeat what you've already said? It seems to me that you've condemned her (and others who are for capital punishment) for believing that way. The whole thing seems hypocritcal to me because y'all act like you do respect her and consider her a conservative worth talking to, yet many of you ridicule and denounce conservatives as a whole when you don't have to deal with her in a thread. Maybe it's easy for me to step back from this and look at it because this issue might not be as personal as the gay rights issue for me or very many others. It's very easy for me to say that I don't tolerate people being against me getting married or generally have equality because those people refuse to tolerate me first. If they're not going to put up with me in the least, why should I put up with them? As one of my English teachers once said, turning the other cheek just to get that one slapped as well is never really beneficial. But I'm trying to look at capital punishment and the basic idea of being respectful of other's opinions as long as it's not a matter of them trying to run your own life for you in a philosophical way. And this is not an attack on any of you in the least. I'm just throwing this out and I want to see what y'all have to say whenever I get back to a computer today. It's just something I wanted to discuss.

I can't address your whole statement, but I have noticed a difference in the treatment of Nancy as compared to other conservatives who have the same beliefs (by myself, too). Nancy usually present her arguments in a very logical way, probably that is the reason, but essentially they do come down to the same beliefs.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by amber

I can't address your whole statement, but I have noticed a difference in the treatment of Nancy as compared to other conservatives who have the same beliefs (by myself, too). Nancy usually present her arguments in a very logical way, probably that is the reason, but essentially they do come down to the same beliefs.

The difference between Nancy and someone like Brown Eyes is that Nancy doesn't call people baby killers and try to pass off Ann Coulter as the bearer of truth. As much I vehemently disagree with her views, she gets points for not being a sheer loon.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do not think anyone is arguing that people should not zealously support their positions. I think the point is that everyone around here at one time or another and others far more often than others, are just downright rude when someone expresses an opinion. A hypothetical example of what I am talking about is this exchange:

I think the DP is warranted and I support it because if someone killed my kid, I would want them dead. That may be wrong to some, but it is how I feel and the law supports me.

the rude response:

You are a sick freak. Murder is muder and you will never be right no matter what your assinine reasoning is - so shut up and how dare you call yourself a Christian when what you are is a MURDERER

the polite response:

I see where you are coming from, but I cannot agree because I think it is wrong to take someone else's life no matter how heinous a crime they committed.

I think alot of the venom comes from people, myself included, thinking they are going to change someone's mind and then when they do not the polite way, the smugness and the snarkiness comes forward. I know I try to keep it in check, but I fail sometimes. So, I guess all we can do is try to be careful in our posts if we do not want to be rude. I think that is what Hillary is saying.

Jason, Hillary brought up the issue of some having zero respect for people who are pro-death penalty. My post was in response to that and why I don't respect those pro-death penalty opinions. That's all.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Jason, Hillary brought up the issue of some having zero respect for people who are pro-death penalty. My post was in response to that and why I don't respect those pro-death penalty opinions. That's all.

I know - but I was referring to the broader intent of her post that people around here, including myself on occasion, take a cheap shot. It is hard not to do when you feel passionately about something.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

The difference between Nancy and someone like Brown Eyes is that Nancy doesn't call people baby killers and try to pass off Ann Coulter as the bearer of truth. As much I vehemently disagree with her views, she gets points for not being a sheer loon.

EXACTLY - Nancy respects other people's opinions though she may disagree with them. She will call someone out when the facts do not support them, but it rarely is with venom.