Animal abuse and IAMS

[strandinthewind]

Thank you Patti - I was gonna reply with a similar story about how many shelter people work closely with the rescue people of each breed, how they care for animals, etc. And - the rescue people of each breed are often great in placing all animals regardless of breed. I think in smaller towns, it is FAR easier to care for the animals than it is in a big city, where space is so limited. I also hate having to spay or neuter an animal, but I see that it is the humane thing to do because the only way to stop much of the neglect is through population control. Again, I hate saying that, but I have been around long enough to know it is true. I also hate that animals are euthanized, but the alternate is to have them die in the wild, attack other animals for food, spread disease, etc. So, I recognize it is necessary and, more importantly, that horror could be avoided if people recognized the need to not allow their animals to breed for fun, etc. And - blind breeding can result in sickly dogs that can only breed worse - I know the law of nature suggests the strong will survive, but I have seen it happen too many times not to know that preventing it is better than watching a sick animal suffer. I know this is a touchy subject and that people think differently on the poplulation control arguments. But, these are my feelings and they are offered respectfully, etc.

So, while I am sure some abuse goes on, what I have seen tells me it, thankfully, is not all shelters. I am glad your experience was the same!!!!!!!

As for Big Business - many companies do care. But and sadly, not all of them do. And then there is the whole using animals to test for medicine. If my child was dying, I have to say I would want the animals used. That is not fair I know, but it is how I feel. I do think, however, that the make up companies and other such things ought to be forbidden from testing on animals - period. Again, touchy subject - so, respectfully, that is how I feel.

[ryan8472]

That is so sad. What is wrong with people?

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

This is, I think, an interesting aside, while I was in Italy and Greece a few weeks ago, I had forgotten that both countries have packs of dogs that run wild in the streets. It was kind of disarming to see. I mean I was on top of the Acropolis and on the way down there were like 10 dogs gathered in a group under a tree - in a NATIONAL MONUMENT. Then, they come up to the table at some outside cafes. Same thing in Italy. It was very strange to see these dogs, some clearly sick, running about everywhere.

As for Italy, I can say that in the summer we have a problem with people abandoning their dogs, usually on the highways, and it can happen that they form a group and become quite dangerous. But it's quite uncommon to meet groups of dogs in the central streets of our cities. Can I ask you where have you seen them?
What we do have everywhere are cats because there's an old and tradition of ladies feeding them. Anna Magnani did it too, every night.

Romy

[amber]

Originally Posted by ryan8472

That is so sad. What is wrong with people?

Well, historically, people have mainly cared about people, and barely that. We're just greedy, murdering, power/resource hungry bastards, as a race...as far as i can tell...and enough is never enough...cynical? naaaaaah...
AMber

[amber]

Originally Posted by Serrart

As for Italy, I can say that in the summer we have a problem with people abandoning their dogs, usually on the highways, and it can happen that they form a group and become quite dangerous. But it's quite uncommon to meet groups of dogs in the central streets of our cities. Can I ask you where have you seen them?
What we do have everywhere are cats because there's an old and tradition of ladies feeding them. Anna Magnani did it too, every night.

Romy

Anna - what an actress...I think of her as the Bette Davis, of uh, people who aren't Bette Davis - the coliseum cats and all that, right? Plus, cats don't pack up and become dangerous...if only the pack dogs would just eat rats, mice, and pidgeons...
AMber

[Violet]

First, I have to confess I haven't read these articles. I'm taking y'all's word for it. I just can't read sad animal stories...

Originally Posted by Livia

My vet told me that he sees more overweight animals from Iams supposed weight control products than any other brand. As long as the first listed ingredient is a meat-derived product, and not corn meal, you're okay. Higher-priced products are not necessarily better, just higher-priced. I've been feeding my kitty Purina One.

This makes sense, since my cat actually gained half a pound in a year while on it! The vet recommended it. I just assumed it was lack of activity.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Carol

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Serrart

As for Italy, I can say that in the summer we have a problem with people abandoning their dogs, usually on the highways, and it can happen that they form a group and become quite dangerous. But it's quite uncommon to meet groups of dogs in the central streets of our cities. Can I ask you where have you seen them?
What we do have everywhere are cats because there's an old and tradition of ladies feeding them. Anna Magnani did it too, every night.

Romy

I saw them in Messina (Sicily) and in Naples - even in the Pompeian ruins, which was a little weird The mot I saw though clearly was in Athens!!!!

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by amber

Anna - what an actress...I think of her as the Bette Davis, of uh, people who aren't Bette Davis - the coliseum cats and all that, right?
AMber

Yes, and there's another place with Roman ruins where she always went to bring food, that even today looks like an exclusive club for cats only.

Romy

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I saw them in Messina (Sicily) and in Naples - even in the Pompeian ruins, which was a little weird

But that was scheduled, we love to thrill tourists

Romy

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Serrart

But that was scheduled, we love to thrill tourists

Romy

Well, the adorable Italian lady who was our guide was like "these dogs are the direct descendants of the actual Pompeian (sp.?) dogs"

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Patti

Diss this is SO not true. I volunteered in Phoenix for an animal rescue organization where we did euthanasia list rescue from the county pounds. Those kennel workers at Animal Control had certain nasty jobs they had to do, ie, euthanize for space, etc., but they most assuredly cared about the animals. There were many times when the kennel workers would call us and beg us to come and rescue a dog that they were going to have to euthanize and really didn't want to. It happened OFTEN. The problem is not the kennel workers who don't care about the animals, it's the lousy owners who don't spay or neuter their pets (when they are not going to be show animals), backyard breeders who think it's "cute" to go through the kitten/puppy experience and on and on. Those are truly the people who don't give a flying f*ck about the animals, not the shelter people.

Yes, but for every good shelter out there that takes care of their animals, there's another out there that abuses them. It's just a fact.

In any case, I'll refrain from participating in this thread because I get too emotional when it comes to animal abuse and end up looking like a loon.

[irishgrl]

Chicken Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Whole Wheat, Rice Bran, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Rice, Lamb Meal, Natural Flavors, Yeast Culture, Calcium Carbonate, Monosodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Dried Buttermilk, Dried Kelp, Dried Egg Product, Lecithin, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Oxide, Garlic, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin (source of Vitamin B2), Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Copper Sulfate.

so, I gotta ask: WHERE'S THE BEEF? That mess above sounds like cereals mixed with essence of meat, and fortified with mucho vitamins...the closest you come to anything approximating nutritional value is the "Lamb Meal" but that could be anything: bones, fat, brains...no guarantee of MEAT...oh, I see there is "Dried Egg Product" also....well, that makes all the nutritional difference!!! All I gotta say is Yukka~ poor animals, maybe table scraps are better after all! at least when you give them a bone with MEAT on it, or a bit of cut up meat, you know what they're getting....
Cats are luckier because they are capable of hunting for rodents/birds etc, but dogs....about all they can do is raid garbage cans.....this is just too sad

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

so, I gotta ask: WHERE'S THE BEEF? That mess above sounds like cereals mixed with essence of meat, and fortified with mucho vitamins...the closest you come to anything approximating nutritional value is the "Lamb Meal" but that could be anything: bones, fat, brains...no guarantee of MEAT...oh, I see there is "Dried Egg Product" also....well, that makes all the nutritional difference!!! All I gotta say is Yukka~ poor animals, maybe table scraps are better after all! at least when you give them a bone with MEAT on it, or a bit of cut up meat, you know what they're getting....
Cats are luckier because they are capable of hunting for rodents/birds etc, but dogs....about all they can do is raid garbage cans.....this is just too sad

Oh no - dogs can hunt - trust me, esp. terriers who will kill any rodent and really up to the size of a badger (dachshund literally means badger hound) - it is what they were bred for centuries to do :sool:

Also, I am no huge fan of processed food, but http://www.nutroproducts.com/maxdogadult.asp says (emphasis supplied):

Benefits of MAX Adult:

Real chicken and lamb protein
All natural with vitamins and minerals
Formulated for healthy skin and coat
Easy to digest less clean-up
No chicken by-products

Formulated for Healthy Skin and Coat
MAX Adult's advanced formula is designed to provide a high concentration of polyunsaturated fatty acids, such as linoleic acid, and essential vitamins and minerals necessary to help avoid the nutritional deficiencies that could affect your dog's skin and coat.

Digestibility
This important factor measures a dog's ability to assimilate the nutrients available in the food. That is, how much of the food is really used by the dog. Repeated kennel test verify the ingredients in MAX Adult are more digestible than other leading dog foods.

Great Taste
Repeated kennel tests prove that your pet will enjoy great chicken and lamb taste found in MAX Adult.

Stool Volume
The MAX Adult diet results in low stool volume. Small, firm, low-volume stools means faster, easier cleanup, and a cleaner, more hygienic environment for your dog and family.

Performance & Economy
With its balanced nutrition, unique combination of ingredients, high digestibility and palatability, MAX Adult performs. Because of its highly concentrated caloric density, you may actually find it less expensive to feed.

No Chicken By-Products
Most dog foods contain chicken by-products or poultry by-products as a source of protein. That means including chicken or poultry heads, feets and guts— ingredients you'll never find in MAX Adult. We must use the same parts of chicken you feed your family . No heads, no feet, no internal organs.

Feeding Guidelines
These feeding recommendations are for adult dogs with moderate activity levels. These are guidelines and should be adjusted as needed to maintain optimum weight. Keep fresh drinking water available at all times. See your veterinarian regularly.

Pregnant Bitches:Offer 50% more during pregnancy.

Lactating Bitches: Require two to three times the normal amount of food.

Puppies: Feed twice the normal adult requirement. Feed puppies three times a day until six months of age, then twice daily until fourteen month, depending on breed.

Suggested Amounts to Feed Per Day

380kcals/per cup. Use a standard 8 oz. measuring cup.
Nutritional Adequacy Statement
Animal feeding tests using *AAFCO procedures substantiate that MAX Adult provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages.
*Association of American Feed Control Officials.

Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Whole Wheat, Rice Bran, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Rice, Lamb Meal, Natural Flavors, Yeast Culture, Calcium Carbonate, Monosodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Dried Buttermilk, Dried Kelp, Dried Egg Product, Lecithin, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Oxide, Garlic, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin (source of Vitamin B2), Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Copper Sulfate.
Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals, including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (minimum) 26.00%
Crude Fat (minimum) 16.00%
Crude Fiber (maximum) 4.00%
Moisture (maximum) 10.00%
Linoleic Acid (minimum) 3.50%
Ascorbic Acid (minimum)* 35.0 mg/kg
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

[irishgrl]

unfortunately, in most urban settings, there isnt anything for them to hunt...
I am aware that terriers are good ratters, but not everyone owns a terrier, and not every terrier owner lives in the country. I was speaking in terms of general availability of wild food for cats versus dogs. A cat is more likely to kill a bird or a mouse or even a rat than a dog is.

In general, dogs left to their own devices (semi wild, abandoned by owners) tend to run in packs and that is when they revert to their natural hunting ability...a solitary dog more often than not finds it easier, not to mention faster, to raid a garbage can... remember, I am speaking overall, not individual dogs or even individual breeds.

[Tango]

The best animal food I've come across (literally "human grade") is Wellness, via Old Mother Hubbard. More expensive, of course, but you actually get what you pay here:

http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/index.asp