Big Love Live

[fleetfootmike]

Originally posted by goldustboi
For what it's worth, UK tribute band "Rumours Of Fleetwood Mac" do a 'Tango In The Night'-era arrangement of it live.

pardon? iv seen rumours of fm live 3 times but they never once did big love, id love to see that tho coz they are a damn good tribute band.

Yup - most recent tour.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Johnny, this band has been playing the same set of seven tunes since 1977 and three more since 1975. And Big Love is what so many folks seem to have gotten sick of!?

I guess the situation is this... when Lindsey performed it acoustically on the 'Cradle' tour, it was startling and fresh and exciting.

Then, of course, many people had their first exposure to this arrangement on the 'Dance' tour.

But now, the novelty of the different arrangement has apparently worn off for a lot of folks, and they would be interested in seeing it performed in an arrangement similar to that on 'Tango.'

I don't think anyone is saying that the song should be removed from the setlist... I guess some of us would just like to see it performed in a way that it hasn't been performed ever before.

Similar sentiments have been expressed in regards to just about every song in the current setlist, and "Big Love" isn't immune to that.

[face of glass]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Perhaps you'd care to share what this so-called reputation is?

“Reputation” was a wrong word there. I’ve just been reading these boards for a year now and you’ve never seemed like the friendliest guy on the planet to me. But I guess it’s my problem mostly; one may get along with 99% of the people in the universe just fine but then there’s always that particular one percent. No offense meant with any of this, though. I’m not the friendliest person around when it comes to it either.

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I would have rather seen them plug "Big Love" back in, and unplug "Gypsy."

I agree. It is the song they play before the acoustic set anyway, so why not?

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
I think most folks' reaction when he first did it was... slightly hysterical laughter (if you were a guitarist).

FleetfootMike, I’m not a guitarist myself so could you specify this for me, please? Does it violate the “finger-picking laws” or something like that?

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Similar sentiments have been expressed in regards to just about every song in the current setlist, and "Big Love" isn't immune to that.

I agree with everything in your post, except that I beg to differ somewhat on this particular bit. “Big Love” as an acoustic number irks me the most in the set list at this point. I guess it’s mainly because that number was one of the first things I heard from this band. The impact was such that I had to throw all my preconceptions of FM being a washed-out ‘70s soft-rock mafia away. At that point I had become weary of the current music scene, of how it was supposedly “innovating” all the time, when I felt like it was largely recycling the ideas of the past. The acoustic “Big Love” hit me like a thunderbolt; here was a relatively new approach that had all the intensity and fire I could ever hope for.

During The Dance Lindsey presented the acoustic version as a new thing; he wanted to show all those thousands of people who didn’t buy Out Of The Cradle that he hadn’t been laying low, that he had something new to say. That’s why featuring that song (and “Go Insane”) as a solo thing was important; he basically lifted his middle finger in the air to those who had ignored him; he showed that he may be doing the same old songs with FM but as a solo act he was trying to do something new.

When he now does it, it doesn’t have the same impact. So that’s where my problem is; this number that was supposed to be “something new” has now become "something old". He may have taken the finger-picking to almost ridiculous extremes with Gift Of Screws material but the fact that he is still playing this old arrangement shows that he really isn’t willing to show people his “progress” any longer. It is now a nostalgia piece, just like most others in the set.

So basically it’s just an ideological question; the tune is the same masterpiece it’s ever been but I liked it better when it represented "something new", not "something old".

[fleetfootmike]

Originally posted by face of glass
FleetfootMike, I’m not a guitarist myself so could you specify this for me, please? Does it violate the “finger-picking laws” or something like that?

Mostly an 'excuse me while I go chop my hands off and burn my guitar collection' reaction

It's actually not *as* hard as it sounds once you have the basic picking pattern he uses down in your fingers on autopilot. The bit that always gets the applause in the instrumental break is probably the easiest bit of it, too.

[face of glass]

Thanks for that FFMike. I know this is off topic and all, and I should probably ask someone who's not a big fan of LB for this, but it's connected to the acoustic "Big Love" anyway:

When Lindsey plays to people who do not know a thing about guitar playing (the majority of the audience, I guess) with an acoustic these days the usual reaction is probably along the lines: "Damn, he's good, doing all that stuff with just an acoustic!" I bet most of these do not even see his guitar cord and definitely don't know about the myriad of FX the strings go through (as in "Here Comes The Sun"). So, is he deliberately trying to impress some people this way or not? Is he trying to seem like a "natural" acoustic player when in fact he's playing with an electric? Is this another topic for ideological debate?

[strandinthewind]

I know nothing about playing the guitar. But, I can say that every other person like me that sees LB play the solo BL just goes nuts and thinks its great. I mean it looks hard as hell to play even if it is not and his performance is passionate. This is show biz you know. Still, I'd rather Stevie's harmony a la Letterman. The "plugged" version as well with the grunts would be cool as well. But, it is fine the way it is.

[CarneVaca]

I don't it's Lindsey's intent to impress the pants off people necessarily, though I have no doubt he realizes how impressed people are with his playing. And I'm sure he laps it up. But I belief the gratification he gets from it has to do mostly with taking that style of fingerpicking to a different level.

Big Love is not prohibitively difficult to play (even though I have yet to get it) but it is fast, and when you are playing that fast, it takes a lot more presence of mind and skill to recover from a mistake. I think most people, guitar players or not, realize he is using effects and they realize the guitar is plugged in. But then again, I could be mistaken. I am perhaps more attuned to that stuff than folks who just listen.

[fleetfootmike]

Originally posted by face of glass
... is he deliberately trying to impress some people this way or not? Is he trying to seem like a "natural" acoustic player when in fact he's playing with an electric? Is this another topic for ideological debate?

If you want my opinion (which clearly you do, since you asked me for it ), Lindsey is much more setting out to impress folks with his ELECTRIC playing this tour.

Technically, certainly on electric, he's *not* on a par with the likes of Steve Vai or Joe Satriani for sheer blinding speed and mindblowing technique - he rarely uses his little finger (pinky to the transpondials amongst us) when playing lead, and the fact that he's playing with fingers probably precludes the dazzling levels of speed that Vai or Satch can get with a pick.

Having said that, lead guitar isn't all about technique. What he does do is play with a level of emotional intensity that a lot of others don't, and, these days, he also makes a point of drawing attention to it with his body language and general demeanour.

As far as his acoustic playing goes: he's a damn fine picker I know a number of guitarists who would p*ss all over him in terms of notes/second on electric lead, but wouldn't know where to START on an acoustic: it's a markedly different ballgame. Yes, a good chunk of what he does isn't as hard as it perhaps seems once you understand the techniques at the core of his playing: yes he's prettying up the sound with effects, but.. even so, the basic stuff he does isn't three-chords-round-a-campfire picking, not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

To be honest, what's so good about Lindsey is that he's Lindsey It's not just the technique, although that is pretty unique to him; it's also as much in what he plays as how he plays it. I can't, to be honest, think of many guitarists who are as good as he is on both acoustic AND electric, and make a career of it. Lindsey's somewhat rare in being publicly not so much an acoustic or electric guitarist, but simply a guitarist.

And yes, I'm a fan, but he's probably not my favourite guitarist, quite.

[face of glass]

Well said that one. It's something that even the non-musicians can grasp.

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
Lindsey's somewhat rare in being publicly not so much an acoustic or electric guitarist, but simply a guitarist.

I guess it's due to the musical surroundings of the '70s. It was just necessary for a guitarist of that time to play both the "gentle naturality" with an acoustic and the "screaming intensity" with an electric. Those times still had the '60s diverse spirit in them.

I know a number of guitarists who would p*ss all over him in terms of notes/second on electric lead, but wouldn't know where to START on an acoustic: it's a markedly different ballgame.

The rock audiences of the '70s weren't just hippies anymore, they started to fracture into several smaller groups. It was only natural that some of these groups wouldn't want the diversity that there had been before. The times changed; you didn't have to prove your skills on both an electric and an acoustic anymore. Specializing into the other was a natural choice for many. Lindsey may not be the best in any field of playing, but for those who demand diversity he should be among the greatest.

[seteca]

Originally posted by face of glass
the myriad of FX the strings go through

Actually for his "acoustic" songs, the guitar signal goes through only one FX box - a Boss DD-3 delay unit. It's just a light slapback delay which gives the sound some more texture, it doesn't really "assist" in any way. Lindsey played "Big Love" totally dry (i.e. no FX at all) on the "Mark and Brian Show" and it still sounded just as amazing.

Also, the thing about using delay units is that although any correct notes you play will sound better, any wrong notes you play ALSO get delayed - so it's a two way street. Using a delay box doesn't automatically make you sound better: if you're very good, it'll make you sound great, if you're bad, people will leave the arena!lol!

(For those who saw him play Big Love in concert on the SYW tour, you may have seen him step on the DD-3 to switch it off just before the song is about to finish - he does that to prevent the final chord from echoing i.e. so that the song has a sharp and sudden ending.)

Even for his "electric" songs, his setup is pretty simple. He uses a DD-3 (a different one, obviously) and also an SD-1 (super overdrive unit). You can really hear the brilliant way he uses the echo effect of the DD-3 on songs like Gold Dust Woman, and the SD-1 really shines through on the end solo of Go Your Own Way.

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
It's actually not *as* hard as it sounds once you have the basic picking pattern he uses down in your fingers on autopilot. The bit that always gets the applause in the instrumental break is probably the easiest bit of it, too.

I know exactly what you mean by saying this, and I've often come across as sounding (unintentionally!!) patronising when I've made similar comments about Big Love. I think for pro. acoustic guitarists, it's not that tough a song to learn, but if you don't play guitar and you suddenly decided to learn to play just so you can play "Big Love"......how long would that take....?? Probably forever...literally! I think it's relatively easy for pro. guitarists to learn how to play because it's such a beautifully constructed song, but you HAVE to have that prior knowledge to see through it.

[fleetfootmike]

Originally posted by seteca
Even for his "electric" songs, his setup is pretty simple. He uses a DD-3 (a different one, obviously) and also an SD-1 (super overdrive unit). You can really hear the brilliant way he uses the echo effect of the DD-3 on songs like Gold Dust Woman, and the SD-1 really shines through on the end solo of Go Your Own Way.

Not to mention on "I'm So Afraid". (here speaks the happy owner of a 50W Marshall, a Les Paul and an SD-1. Instant Lindsey tone in a box )

I think for pro. acoustic guitarists, it's not that tough a song to learn, but if you don't play guitar and you suddenly decided to learn to play just so you can play "Big Love"......how long would that take....?? Probably forever...literally! I think it's relatively easy for pro. guitarists to learn how to play because it's such a beautifully constructed song, but you HAVE to have that prior knowledge to see through it.

As I said, once you have the picking pattern down on autopilot...

However, that bit ISN'T easy

[BlueGrass]

I have that MArk and Brian Show, and it always stood apart from other Big Love versions because it sounds more thicker and synthy. I thought he had his effects up actually, not down completely.

Thanks for the insight Seteca.

[BlueGrass]

Oh Yea, can someone send me an mp3 of the Letterman performance?

[email protected]

[Cammie]

As a set...we liked The Dance video Go Insane
performance and the lovely first part of Big Love!
It is LB's screeching love grunts that really spoil
an other wise brilliantly executed Guitar set!!!Sky

ps...If a guy screamed at me like that I'd RUN!!!
His HBO carnal moaning was more alluring!!!

[face of glass]

Originally posted by seteca
Actually for his "acoustic" songs, the guitar signal goes through only one FX box...

Sure, for "Big Love" and "Go Insane" anyway. But not for "Here Comes The Sun", I think. I guess he's not interested in doing the more layered finger-picking pieces on stage at this point. Probably because he received an almost unanimous disapproval on his "HCTS" performance.

Also, the thing about using delay units is that although any correct notes you play will sound better, any wrong notes you play ALSO get delayed - so it's a two way street.

I thought that he benefits from the delay in some other way too; if his thumb lets him down when he's doing those quavers it isn't audible to the audience because of the FX. Or that's what I once read from one of the guitar wizzes on this forum.

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
As I said, once you have the picking pattern down on autopilot...

However, that bit ISN'T easy

Obviously not, especially if you fall into the general male stereotype of "being capable of concentrating on only one thing at a time."

Keith Richards once said of Robert Johnson that he seemed to have "three brains" because Johnson was capable of playing the boogie bass figure along with the melody and also singing at the same time. Lindsey's struggled his way to the same situation too, but "Big Love" doesn't have the same spontaneity that Robert Johnson's pieces have. LB obviously went through plenty of rehearsing before he started to pretend that he, too, has three brains.