Coultergeist gets her head handed to her

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by dissention

Can white people understand what it is to be Hispanic? African-American? Cuban-American? Russian-American? I think not. And she didn't make a blanket statement about the entire white race, she said "most."

I tend not to get very upset when people make comments about white people, and I am a white person. I get more offended when someone says something about black people (or another race), honestly. Other races have been much more oppressed in this country. And I don't think white people truly understand what it is to be a racial minority. I am a minority because I'm a lesbian, but I don't think that automatically gives me a true understanding of how hard it is to be a racial minority. Besides, I could hide my homosexuality easily to the public if I wanted to and that is not so easy for probably the vast majority of racial minorities.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

. . . I'm thankful you have no part in the education system, dear. That amount of time in school would breed such utter contempt, moreso than at the present moment, that it's almost unthinkable.

Maybe we should let them run wild and free in the cities and then form a caring circle with whispered instructions

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I tend not to get very upset when people make comments about white people, and I am a white person. I get more offended when someone says something about black people (or another race), honestly. Other races have been much more oppressed in this country. And I don't think white people truly understand what it is to be a racial minority. I am a minority because I'm a lesbian, but I don't think that automatically gives me a true understanding of how hard it is to be a racial minority. Besides, I could hide my homosexuality easily to the public if I wanted to and that is not so easy for probably the vast majority of racial minorities.

True - but juding based on type is all the same to me. I think calling someone a redneck is just as bad as calling someone a racial slur. I get that most rednecks were not slaves, but many are poor and uneducated and the system could care a less about them. Thus, they have suffered some abuse. If you do not believe me, go to the innards of Appalachia and look at what the coal mines did to the locals. I think such name calling all stems from the same place just as things like "all rich people are jerks" - they are gross generalizations which may or may not have some vague foundation in former truth. But, we are all humans and I guess it is just in us to do so. I mean to a lesser extent, who did not howl with laughter at Barbra Billingslee (sp.?) speaking jive on Airplane. I do not think that is any less racist than showing field hands plowing the field in the Old South in Gone WIth the Wind - yet one is acceptable more so than the other - thus, I try not to judge in my life - sadly, I am not perfect

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Maybe we should let them run wild and free in the cities and then form a caring circle with whispered instructions

No, we shouldn't. Just like we shouldn't keep them caged up in a school for ten hours a day.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

No, I'm talking about the English language as being a dominant form of communication and since America dominates the global market with regard to communications and avenues thereof, Americanization logically follows. Really I'm talking about small country nationalism and issues regarding language extinction due to English language domination more than anything else but I won't go into a long diatribe about that.

Nope. Now you're stretching my arguement. Of course it behooves any non-native English speaker to learn English while living in America. I'm talking more about losing one's native language in favor of the language in power, English. I'm examining the larger picture here, language as a political tool, that kind of thing. Americans view Mexico as an inferior country, therefore, their language, culture, etc is inferior. Americans think, why should I learn Spanish? They should be learning English, I shouldn't have (nor want) to immerse myself in an inferior country's culture, how absurd! You may disagree with me, but racist tendencies guide the American resistance with regard to learning Spanish.

Also, Americans are spoiled due to the fact that most countries know at least two languages (one of them being English) and are very defensive about it. You pointed out England, that's a great example of an English speaking country that has branched out of the realm of the monolingual.

Actually I want to chime in here and say that I think the world is going toward one language anyway. Most European countries speak English because they know that it is to their benefit, it is the Dominant language of Business, and to be competitive you talk in the language that group business is conducted in. Think about it: you are in a conference room, there is a Russian, a Japanese, an American a German (and/or any other Nationality you want to name) What is the ONE language they will all have in common? RIGHT: ENGLISH. That has advantages because its a sure bet not everone in the room will speak any of the OTHER languages.

Another point is that in Europe, the countries are much more cheek by jowl, and the folks there cross the borders with FAR more regularity than we do. Thus for them, the obvious need for multiple languages can be seen. To get offended by Americans who dont know another language (such as myself) or to bristle at the idea that it is unwieldy to produce forms in other languages is unreasonable. Let me ask you this: Where do you draw the line? Which languages do we provide forms in? Can you imagine the cost? And how would I as a Social Worker be able to do my job if I cant understand these foreign language forms? Then there is the issue of time constraints. And personnel constraints. We have translators in a limited number of languages but each of these people has duties of their own aside from translating. Scheduling appointments that synchronize two workers schedules is difficult, especially if you only have one available Hmong interpreter for example and you have 6 eligibility workers all scheduling appointments for Hmong clients. That translator wont have time to do their OWN work!

No, whether you like it or not, it is just not logistically possible to accomodate everyone in every language no matter how much we try to bend over backwards to do so. I think we all mean well and want to try and assist newcomers anyway we can but the reality is, the sooner they learn the host country's language the better they will be able to function in their CHOSEN home.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

No, we shouldn't. Just like we shouldn't keep them caged up in a school for ten hours a day.

Perhaps a happy medium exists - but apparently the current system is not working in that they are not taught enough because there are not enough hours in the school day. So, it is either teach more in less time or add time to teach more

Edit - and they would not be caged up all day - there is lunchtime, and PE - but I forget I think you are all about getting rid of PE

[ontheEdgeof17]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Perhaps a happy medium exists - but apparently the current system is not working in that they are not taught enough because there are not enough hours in the school day. So, it is either teach more in less time or add time to teach more

Don't fully blame the educational system. Blame the parents, too, who don't discipline their children and let them run rampant after school.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Then be pro-active and learn some Spanish. Hey, if you can't beat 'em (down) join 'em.

This isn't really meant to be argumentative, but why should I have to? I took French for 3 years in high school then minored in it in college because that's the language I WANTED to learn. It was one of the very few things I got to learn in college purely for pleasure and learning and not as some kind of "stepping stone" onto something else. In hindsight, Spanish would have been a more USEFUL language to have learned. But I didn't know back then what I would be getting myself into career-wise. And as for now trying to learn it? Please. If there's time left over in an 80-hour work week, the last thing I am doing is trying to learn another language...I do appreciate my sleep.

Anyway, this wasn't really directed at you. I'm just kind of venting because I've had other people say the same thing to me before, and I think it's unfair to expect everyone else (myself included) to conform when it's not they're problem in the first place.

Brad

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

I am always amazed though, when I see people on TV or something in other countries speaking English, and very well, I might add.

Well, we learn it so we can fool the wealthy American Tourists when they come to spend money in our Countries...

Romy

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Edit - and they would not be caged up all day - there is lunchtime, and PE - but I forget I think you are all about getting rid of PE

No, I am not. If you remember correctly, I said they should have the option between PE and study hall, that way they'll have an extra opportunity to complete more of the required work.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Also, I do not think it is adburd at all to ass another class.

Ummm...what?



You're right - what's wrong with assing a class? *snickersnicker* There's nothing adburd about that at all!

I'm sorry hon, I know it was just a typo. But I found it pretty damn funny, especially since we're talking about education & the like.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by skcin

Ummm...what?



You're right - what's wrong with assing a class? *snickersnicker* There's nothing adburd about that at all!

I'm sorry hon, I know it was just a typo. But I found it pretty damn funny, especially since we're talking about education & the like.

add another class

I hate my typing skills AND - I made an A in typing in college

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I hate my typing skills AND - I made an A in typing in college

We had to learn typing with that bitch Mavis Beacon when I was in high school. I loathed her with every fiber of my being.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

Don't fully blame the educational system. Blame the parents, too, who don't discipline their children and let them run rampant after school.

AMEN BROTHER CURTIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean I get that many parents work, etc. - but there are alternatives to letting them run free. I have personal experience in this because I did volunteer free after school tutoring for the kids in the projects in New Orleans. As I have mentioned before, the level of gratitude from those parents (ALL of which were hard working good, honest, and decent people) was astounding. They would bring me food. I would always think that because they were so poor that they did without to honor me with thanks for giving their kids a better chance. I would cry daily - who wouldn't. But, in any event, many places have such programs - and that is a good thing.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

No, I am not. If you remember correctly, I said they should have the option between PE and study hall, that way they'll have an extra opportunity to complete more of the required work.

thanks for clearing that up