Katie Holmes embracing Scientology

[madformac]

It's really interesting reading this thread which is about a rather trivial story but it does enlighten me to the way many of you think and some of you that take a judgemental approach.

I like quite a few of Cruise's films and from what I've seen of him in interviews he seems to be reasonably sound of mind to me. (He was on the Parkinson show in the UK last year and seemed totally honest when he was asked about his childhood, his parents and sisters. Questions he wasn't expecting. He changed from film star to normal person for about 5 minutes and it was quite riviting).

OK, if he's straight or not, it's his choice and his choice to reveal it or not. What is worse is all the gossip that surrounds everything he does. Although even this probably helps sell the movies anyway.

Same with his views on his way of life. He chooses to live as he does. I would think it's arrogant presumption to attack him about Scientology when to be perfectly honest, the religions based on faith (i.e. not factual evidence of existence) such as Christianity or Islam, to an outside observer seem equally as absurd. (Just for the record I don't subscribe to any particular religion, I think all have their merits and failures but when viewed with an open mind no single one is right or wrong, no living human actually knows the truth, it's all guesswork)

This girl (Holmes) is an adult, I'm quite sure she knows what she's doing. Kidman was not a major player in the business when she married Cruise and now she is. If their 10 year marriage was staged she did pretty damn well out of it. In fact she probably did better than him. (she's the one with a shelf full of awards)..

OK, so, if all of this relationship is to hype up his career then right at this moment it's working. Otherwise we would not be discussing it here. All publicity is good business...

Carry on the hype....

[Mari]

hm ok, I just deleted a post because I realised I hadn't read your post that well.

I guess I can agree to some of it, but still, I can't shrug it off that he's in that cult. Neither for him dragging in that girl with him.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by madformac

It's really interesting reading this thread which is about a rather trivial story but it does enlighten me to the way many of you think and some of you that take a judgemental approach.

I like quite a few of Cruise's films and from what I've seen of him in interviews he seems to be reasonably sound of mind to me. (He was on the Parkinson show in the UK last year and seemed totally honest when he was asked about his childhood, his parents and sisters. Questions he wasn't expecting. He changed from film star to normal person for about 5 minutes and it was quite riviting).

OK, if he's straight or not, it's his choice and his choice to reveal it or not. What is worse is all the gossip that surrounds everything he does. Although even this probably helps sell the movies anyway.

Same with his views on his way of life. He chooses to live as he does. I would think it's arrogant presumption to attack him about Scientology when to be perfectly honest, the religions based on faith (i.e. not factual evidence of existence) such as Christianity or Islam, to an outside observer seem equally as absurd. (Just for the record I don't subscribe to any particular religion, I think all have their merits and failures but when viewed with an open mind no single one is right or wrong, no living human actually knows the truth, it's all guesswork)

This girl (Holmes) is an adult, I'm quite sure she knows what she's doing. Kidman was not a major player in the business when she married Cruise and now she is. If their 10 year marriage was staged she did pretty damn well out of it. In fact she probably did better than him. (she's the one with a shelf full of awards)..

OK, so, if all of this relationship is to hype up his career then right at this moment it's working. Otherwise we would not be discussing it here. All publicity is good business...

Carry on the hype....

I agree about this all being the choice of the players, etc. What I do think though is that many people on the inside and in the know all think this whole thing is a sham to help their careers, which I sort of do not get because his is certainly not in the toilet and both of their movies would have been huge hits regardless of this relationship. But, in any event, Mr. and the future Mrs, Cruise have willingly put all of this in the public eye. Therefore, they should expect the public to comment on it. If they had wanted their privacy, they could have announced it and then refused to do any press on it. That they are treating this like a press junket to promote a new movie, which both are actually promoting BTW, makes this a little suspect. Anyway, my $0.02.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Mari

hm ok, I just deleted a post because I realised I hadn't read your post that well.

That's ok. I read it before you deleted it and I figured you hadn't read it fully.

I was about to reply then it went away!!

Originally Posted by Mari

I guess I can agree to some of it, but still, I can't shrug it off that he's in that cult. Neither for him dragging in that girl with him.

The cult thing about Scientology. Yeah it's probably a cult, whatever the definition is these days.. BUT it seems all these ways of life attract their own little sects and with them bigots, as do religions too of course. While I'm not condoning embracing Scientology and it's, and I'm using the terms already posted here, "brainwashing" and money taking ways, I don't believe it's any better or worse than, for example, Catholic priests believing it's acceptable to sexually abuse children, or right wing Christians denouncing homosexual marriage. All ways and religions are open to interpretation. Not everybody plays by the same rules.

Don't get me wrong, personally I am not exactly thrilled by the idea of gay marriage myself, not because of the homosexual aspect at all but because I feel marriage itself these days is more about giving a public display of being a couple and less about wanting to spend the rest of your life with the person you love.

Love and marriage in modern society are two totally different things and I feel this would just add to the problems. If you truly love someone why feel the need to marry? Either to make it official for others or because your religion asks for it. Which is possibly the reason Cruise wants to marry, to give an outward image of bonding to the world maybe without any love whatsoever... It's gonna sell his movies by getting the marriage attention in the press..

As for Holmes being pulled into the Scientology "cult". Well, as I stated, she's a woman. A woman with management, advisors, friends and family. Possibly, her family feel the way most of you do, but she's doing it anyway. Which could be considered a clear indication she's looking to futher her career as happened to Kidman when she married Cruise. The alternative is she truly believes what they stand for, in which case, right or wrong, it's her choice...

[Mari]

Originally Posted by madformac

That's ok. I read it before you deleted it and I figured you hadn't read it fully.

I was about to reply then it went away!!

I was afraid of that. I got carried away a bit, sorry.

The cult thing about Scientology. Yeah it's probably a cult, whatever the definition is these days.. BUT it seems all these ways of life attract their own little sects and with them bigots, as do religions too of course. While I'm not condoning embracing Scientology and it's, and I'm using the terms already posted here, "brainwashing" and money taking ways, I don't believe it's any better or worse than, for example, Catholic priests believing it's acceptable to sexually abuse children, or right wing Christians denouncing homosexual marriage. All ways and religions are open to interpretation. Not everybody plays by the same rules.

Don't get me wrong, personally I am not exactly thrilled by the idea of gay marriage myself, not because of the homosexual aspect at all but because I feel marriage itself these days is more about giving a public display of being a couple and less about wanting to spend the rest of your life with the person you love.

Love and marriage in modern society are two totally different things and I feel this would just add to the problems. If you truly love someone why feel the need to marry? Either to make it official for others or because your religion asks for it. Which is possibly the reason Cruise wants to marry, to give an outward image of bonding to the world maybe without any love whatsoever... It's gonna sell his movies by getting the marriage attention in the press..

As for Holmes being pulled into the Scientology "cult". Well, as I stated, she's a woman. A woman with management, advisors, friends and family. Possibly, her family feel the way most of you do, but she's doing it anyway. Which could be considered a clear indication she's looking to futher her career as happened to Kidman when she married Cruise. The alternative is she truly believes what they stand for, in which case, right or wrong, it's her choice...

How about marriage as a sentimental, or to use a more positive word , emotional decision? There's a lot of people who think marriage is quite romantic, you know? If that's what people want to do, gay or straight, I think they should have the right. That's not hurting anybody, is it. Quite the opposite if there's a nice little party coming with that wedding

I have my doubts whether Holmes is making a well thought choice as you describe it here. Love, hormones... her age ang lack of experience maybe.. but yeah, it's still her choice. And, I can have doubts about all of this, but I don't know this woman nor what's going on between her and Cruise.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Mari

How about marriage as a sentimental, or to use a more positive word , emotional decision? There's a lot of people who think marriage is quite romantic, you know? If that's what people want to do, gay or straight, I think they should have the right. That's not hurting anybody, is it. Quite the opposite if there's a nice little party coming with that wedding

I actually knew you were going to post this before it appeared.. Call it a psychic moment..

And I totally agree..

If you want to get married because you feel emotionally it's the right thing to do and it bonds you together and you feel as one with each other because of it then it's a great choice and I think you would be doing the right thing... It's still romantic if you feel like this and you feel it will cement the bond between two people..

I do think you would be in the minority in present times though. Maybe I've become too cynical.. I've seen too many marriages fail because I don't believe people were marrying for the right reasons, i.e. themselves and their love for each other. It's always been done for other peoples benefit.. Either parents, friends, religion or just they felt they had been together for a while so it's "the right thing to do". Or for publicity...

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by madformac

I like quite a few of Cruise's films and from what I've seen of him in interviews he seems to be reasonably sound of mind to me. (He was on the Parkinson show in the UK last year and seemed totally honest when he was asked about his childhood, his parents and sisters. Questions he wasn't expecting. He changed from film star to normal person for about 5 minutes and it was quite riviting).

OK, if he's straight or not, it's his choice and his choice to reveal it or not. What is worse is all the gossip that surrounds everything he does. Although even this probably helps sell the movies anyway.

Same with his views on his way of life. He chooses to live as he does. I would think it's arrogant presumption to attack him about Scientology when to be perfectly honest, the religions based on faith (i.e. not factual evidence of existence) such as Christianity or Islam, to an outside observer seem equally as absurd. (Just for the record I don't subscribe to any particular religion, I think all have their merits and failures but when viewed with an open mind no single one is right or wrong, no living human actually knows the truth, it's all guesswork)

This girl (Holmes) is an adult, I'm quite sure she knows what she's doing. Kidman was not a major player in the business when she married Cruise and now she is. If their 10 year marriage was staged she did pretty damn well out of it. In fact she probably did better than him. (she's the one with a shelf full of awards)..

OK, so, if all of this relationship is to hype up his career then right at this moment it's working. Otherwise we would not be discussing it here. All publicity is good business...

Carry on the hype....

Most interviews are rehearsed before they are broadcast. I'm sure Mr Cruise had an idea of what he was going to be asked. He often gives a convincing performance on talk shows, other times he's standing on chairs announcing his love for Dawson's Creek stars.

Fair enough if he wants to keep his sexuality secret. Kevin Spacey for instance won't talk about it (but I know from friends who know him, he is). But Cruise appears to be going to such lengths to keep it under wraps. Why doesn't he just quietly marry some girl? There wouldn't be as much gossip if he did. Instead he choses to do it all in a wave of publicity. So why shouldn't we talk about it when this so-called romance is practically being shoved down our throats? Cruise is obviously using his romance, real or not, to sell himself and his movie. He promotes the gossip methinks.

Also, I still think scientology is a cult. It's all a matter of opinion of course.
Did you know Hollywood there's a scientology retreat only for actors and Hollywood executives? I always thought that was a bit odd.

[SuzeQuze]

I'm less concerned about Katie's involment with Tom himself than I am with Scientology. Below is an excerpt from rickross.com about what a cult is. Also, "brainwashing" is a real phenomenon and very dangerous. I have witnessed it first hand. It is very powerful and destructive. And the people that gain power this way then denounce the new member's family and friends as "evil" if they don't also join. They get people away from their families so they depend completely on the group.

If Scientology were really a religion I would have no problem with it. But it isn't, it's a destructive group.

Rick Ross defines a cult at http://www.rickross.com/reference/about/about8.html:
Any group of people that are intensely devoted to a person, place or thing could be seen as a cult following. The question really is what defines a destructive cult. There are many groups that might be generally called cults, such as the Amish, Elvis fans, or Trekkies [or Stevie fans - Suze's edit]. But these groups are benign and may actually even be beneficial to the people involved. Trekkies have a good time at conventions. Elvis fans also have a certain camaraderie. The Amish are a peaceful, productive society.

When most people use the term "cult," they mean a destructive cult. A destructive cult first and foremost can be defined as a group that has an absolute totalitarian leader and that is essentially personality-driven. Regardless of what they quote, whether it's the Bible, Freud, or Marx, what they really are about is the leader. Their leader is the focus of power within the group and defines it. He or she dictates virtually anything and everything, without any meaningful boundaries.

Second, you have an ongoing dynamic or process in the group that could be referred to as "thought reform," commonly called "brainwashing." People systematically are robbed of their ability to critically think or make independent choices. Ultimately, they essentially become dependent upon the leader to make value judgements and do their thinking for them, or through the leader's delegated counterparts. Members no longer are really thinking for themselves.

Third, the group is destructive. It hurts people. This can be seen through abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, labor exploitation, psychological and emotional trauma. A pattern of destructive behavior emerges. Not all destructive cults are the same. With some groups, certain facets of these three criteria may be expressed more strongly than in others.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by madformac

This girl (Holmes) is an adult, I'm quite sure she knows what she's doing. Kidman was not a major player in the business when she married Cruise and now she is. If their 10 year marriage was staged she did pretty damn well out of it. In fact she probably did better than him. (she's the one with a shelf full of awards)..

I'm quite sure Nicole Kidman would have become a major player even without Tom Cruise. She has an amazing talent and showed it from her first movie. Every film she did with her husband (with the exception of Eyes Wide Shut, but she had Kubrick who hated him and loved her so...) damaged her instead of helping her. Tom Cruise for me is a star but not an actor; Katie Holmes (who definitely hasn't the kind of talent that Kidman has) should stay away from his sets, but she wouldn't.I see a project for both in the next 6 months, if the marriage pact goes on of course. It's simple as that for me. I don't care if he's gay, a Scientology adept or a werewolf etc, but his arrogance in selling off his private life, insulting journalists when they say something he doesn't like or asking them to do what he wants to release an interview irritates me.

Romy

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Serrart

I'm quite sure Nicole Kidman would have become a major player even without Tom Cruise. She has an amazing talent and showed it from her first movie. Every film she did with her husband (with the exception of Eyes Wide Shut, but she had Kubrick who hated him and loved her so...) damaged her instead of helping her.

Dead Calm?
Flirting?
Billy Bathgate?
To Die For?

Homegirl was fabulous from the get-go. And, interestingly enough, on all the movies she made with her hubby, she's the one that got the majority of the rave reviews. Too bad her talent never rubbed off on him...

I think it's interesting to watch Cruise coo about his relationship with Holmes, while when he was married to Kidman, one question about his relationship sent him into a frenzy. It's rather funny to me, especially when coupled with his strange, goofy behavior. I remember when Kidman gave an interview shortly after the divorce and the interviewer asked what the one positive thing about getting divorced was and she said "Now I can wear high heels."

[madformac]

Originally Posted by dissention

I think it's interesting to watch Cruise coo about his relationship with Holmes, while when he was married to Kidman, one question about his relationship sent him into a frenzy. It's rather funny to me, especially when coupled with his strange, goofy behavior. I remember when Kidman gave an interview shortly after the divorce and the interviewer asked what the one positive thing about getting divorced was and she said "Now I can wear high heels."

A couple of years back in St.Thomas I got talking to an actor that was managed by Nicole's manager.

The alleged story I was told was that Tom wanted to outwardly portray a heterosexual family guy type of character. Tom promised Nicole very prominent film roles and Oscar opportunities in return for a 10 year partnership. He got the image he wanted, she got to be a major player. Just because her best roles were not in films he was part of does not mean he and his agents had nothing to do with her getting the parts....

Just another story out there, rumour or otherwise..

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by dissention

Too bad her talent never rubbed off on him...

Nothing of hers ever rubbed off on anything of his...

[dissention]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Nothing of hers ever rubbed off on anything of his...

That's true, especially considering she never gave birth to one of his kids.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by dissention

I think it's interesting to watch Cruise coo about his relationship with Holmes, while when he was married to Kidman, one question about his relationship sent him into a frenzy. It's rather funny to me, especially when coupled with his strange, goofy behavior. I remember when Kidman gave an interview shortly after the divorce and the interviewer asked what the one positive thing about getting divorced was and she said "Now I can wear high heels."

I think their story ended when he finally realized she was such an incredible actress. Probably Eyes Wide Shut was the ultimate realization. For the first time she played free even with him like she usually did in other movies, probably because Kubrick gave her the right confidence. And he came out totally annihilated by her in the film. He must have understood that she couldn't be the right Mrs. Cruise.

Romy




Romy

[trackaghost]

Katie Holmes' Missing Days
Tuesday, June 21, 2005
By Roger Friedman

The newly engaged Katie Holmes still has some explaining to do to her friends and family.

There were 16 days in April during which no one seems to know where she was.

Holmes made a public appearance on April 4 at the premiere of "Steel Magnolias" on Broadway.

She came with her publicist, Leslie Sloane Zelnick, and a couple of other friends. They were there to support Rebecca Gayheart, who was making her Broadway debut.

I know this because I spoke to Holmes at length during the play's intermission. She said she had just moved into her New York apartment and was looking forward to seeing the city.

I also know that on April 4, she had not yet made the acquaintance of Tom Cruise. She briefly dated Josh Hartnett after breaking up with actor Chris Klein.

Hartnett, Klein, Cruise: Which of these three is not like the others?


Klein and Hartnett are young and tall. Cruise is middle-aged and height-challenged.

On the other hand, he's the biggest movie star in the world. They are not.

Holmes was busy during that first week in April. On April 7, she was photographed at the Fragrance Foundation's FiFi event.

Four days later, Holmes was still in New York and was photographed at VH1's "Save the Music" concert. She still had not met Cruise.

Sometime that week, her friends say, she flew to Los Angeles for a meeting with Cruise about a role in "Mission: Impossible 3." The meeting took place after April 11.

The next time anyone heard from Holmes was on April 27, when she appeared in public as Cruise's girlfriend and love of his life.

Where was she during those 16 days?

Somewhere during that time, she decided to fire both her manager and agent, each of whom she had been with for years and who were devoted to her.

The manager, John Carrabino, also handles Renée Zellweger and is beloved by his clients.

Holmes also acquired a new best friend, Jessica Feshbach, the daughter of Joe Feshbach, a controversial Palo Alto, Calif., bond trader.

The Feshbach family, according to published documents, has donated millions to the Church of Scientology. Jessica's aunt even runs a Scientology center in Florida.

According to Richard Behar's now famous 1991 story in Time magazine about Scientology, the Feshbachs were the subject of congressional hearings in 1989.

Behar wrote: "The heads of several companies claimed that Feshbach operatives have spread false information to government agencies and posed in various guises — such as a Securities and Exchange Commission official — in an effort to discredit the companies and drive the stocks down.

"Michael Russell, who ran a chain of business journals, testified that a Feshbach employee called his bankers and interfered with his loans. Sometimes the Feshbachs send private detectives to dig up dirt on firms, which is then shared with business reporters, brokers and fund managers."

The risk-taking Feshbachs, known the world over for making their fortune "shorting" stocks, and the level-headed, conservative Holmeses would be a difficult mix at a dinner table.

Katie's father, Martin Holmes, is the senior partner in a large and respected Toledo, Ohio, law firm. His son, Martin Jr., has recently joined the firm. He's a Harvard graduate. Katie's mom, Kathy, is frequently cited in Toledo for her charity work.

There is some fear among Holmes' close circle that her instant romance with Cruise is not as organic as portrayed.

For one thing, Holmes was raised a strict Catholic. Also, gone from the picture are two close Holmes friends who used to be with her when she did publicity for a film.

One of these is Meghann Birie, a childhood friend who has suddenly disappeared from Holmes' world. Another, a local TV producer here in New York, was too afraid to discuss the situation with me.

We know that Cruise auditioned several actresses for this role before settling on Holmes. This column reported a story about Jennifer Garner. There have been published stories about Kate Bosworth, Lindsay Lohan and Jessica Alba being approached.

A newer one involves Scarlett Johansson, who ran for her life when presented with a fait accompli dinner at the Scientology Celebrity Centre in Hollywood.

And history has been rewritten since the April 27 unveiling.

Curiously, since the Cruise-Holmes situation popped up, we have heard over and over again that Cruise was the young actress' idol when she was growing up.

That's certainly interesting because all of the publicity that used to run on Holmes — still found all over the Internet — lists another Tom as her favorite actor.

That would be Tom Hanks.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160192,00.html

God, this "romance" couldn't be more transparent if it tried!