Peacekeeper/ Matt Drudge

[CarneVaca]

Oh my, so much to react to on this thread. I love this kind of discussion. Keep it going folks. Here's my take:

-- Sugar made some excellent points, as always. I don't own the CD, and I certainly wouldn't burn or stomp on it. But I think I'll go buy it now. I'd be more likely to get rid of (by selling it or giving it away) a CD by an artist who was found to have committed child molestation or some other despicable crime.

-- Toby Keith is a major asshole, and the kind of Neanderthal mouth breather that makes the rest of the world look down on Americans as unsophisticated and childish.

-- Keith, you made excellent points too. I would only take issue with the 40 percent you mentioned. These polls are way off. I keep wondering just whom the hell the pollsters are calling. If I had to guess, just from the people around me, I'd say it's more like 75 percent against the war. Of course, I am in New York. Isn't it sad that the most visible statement our Congress has made about the war in the past couple of weeks has been to rename French Fries? Morons!

-- Gazza, I'm curious as to why releasing anti-war songs puts you off. I find it ballsy and necessary. The Rolling Stones were the only band to release an anti Gulf War song in 1991, and my respect for Mick and the boys grew exponentially as a result.

-- I respect Stevie's choosing not to comment on this, but I would like to know how she feels about the war. I can pretty much guess how Lindsey feels. I think everyone should come clean and state their position. I don't care if you're a janitor, a Hollywood star or one of the poor suckers who's going to be pointing a gun at defenseless Iraqis.

[jeffs]

Could it be that Lindsey just might have another hit single? They've been few and far between: Go Your Own Way, Tusk, Trouble, Big Love and...Peacekeeper?

I would love for Peacekeeper to be another hit single for Lindsey but we have a better chance of Sadam leaving Iraq in the next 36 hours and moving to the US to embark on a university speech circuit than Peacekeeper gaining national popularity as a single and getting significant air time. I have yet to hear it in NYC though it has been played. Every radio station has made fun of how lousy the song is. Don't flame me - I am one of Lindsey's biggest fans to the point of nuaseum.

[stefan]

Every radio station has made fun of how lousy the song is....



...before playing Christina Aguilera and then Nsync and then the Backstreet boys...?

[tommer]

Toby Keith is a major asshole, and the kind of Neanderthal mouth breather that makes the rest of the world look down on Americans as unsophisticated and childish.

Even closing an artists work out of public perception like movies, radio, TV and so on because of his opinion is a real shame for democratic societies.

you guys should make up your minds.
if you are tolerant to intolerance itself, and to the lack of democracy and democratic thinking (and therefore be opposing the war) than everything's fine with those actions you condemn here.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by tommer
you guys should make up your minds.
if you are tolerant to intolerance itself, and to the lack of democracy and democratic thinking (and therefore be opposing the war) than everything's fine with those actions you condemn here.

Tommer, keep in mind I didn't say the guy doesn't have the right to speak. Of course he does. You know I've been consistent on matters of freedom of expression. Which is why I reserve the right to point out what kind of person Toby Keith is.

[tommer]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Tommer, keep in mind I didn't say the guy doesn't have the right to speak. Of course he does. You know I've been consistent on matters of freedom of expression. Which is why I reserve the right to point out what kind of person Toby Keith is.

okay, that's consistent enough. (as usual) we gonna have to disagree about the rest.
at least i can give you my absolute assurance that not more than a 100 people or so outside america even know who the hell toby keith is, or cares for whatever he may have to say. so there is no need to worry.

[Alison]

Well I have never heard of him till now. I live in Canada, maybe thats why.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by Keith
as I watched the news this weekend, CNN kept running the story about what Natalie had said and how she finally apologized.

I thought it was interesting that she was having to apologize for something that she obviously feels, but no one is asking this administration for apologizing for submitting a forged document to the security council pertaining to Saddam Hussein's attempt to buy nuclear rods. As a matter of fact, I find it interesting that the American press was more concerned about what an entertainer said, then what this administration is actually doing.

And no one is asking Saddam to apologize for torturing men who disagree with him, or ordering women raped in front of their husbands, or their children, or gassing thousands of defenseless people...

Oh, wait, I forgot. George Bush is much worse, right? Tell that to the people whose fathers have "disappeared" or been mutilated for life. Or maybe they're "forgeries" too, huh. Whatever.

[sulamith]

I was getting ready to respond with something very similar to what Nancy said, and now I see I don't need to do that.

Touche, Nancy!

Also, I don't really have a problem with what Natalie said, really. Anyone who gets their politics solely from an entertainer needs their head examined. I would hope most intelligent people would just take it with a grain of salt and keep going.

-Sharon

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by sodascouts
And no one is asking Saddam to apologize for torturing men who disagree with him, or ordering women raped in front of their husbands, or their children, or gassing thousands of defenseless people...

Oh, wait, I forgot. George Bush is much worse, right? Tell that to the people whose fathers have "disappeared" or been mutilated for life. Or maybe they're "forgeries" too, huh. Whatever.

Yeah, let's also get Saddam to apologize for taking the anthrax, VX and assorted weapons and helicopters from us all those years ago too. What was he thinking?

No question, Saddam sucks. War sucks more.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Yeah, let's also get Saddam to apologize for taking the anthrax, VX and assorted weapons and helicopters from us all those years ago too. What was he thinking?

I knew I would get this predictable response. Yeah, the U.S. was wrong there, but that doesn't make Saddam right. According to this logic, Saddam could bomb America and it still would be justifiable!

War does indeed suck, and I am not blase about that or dismissive of such concerns. It is, however, justified sometimes and this is one of those times. I know I'm in the minority here but I feel somebody needs to say these things. This isn't about George Bush. It's about Saddam Hussein and I think a lot of people either forget that or choose to ignore it.

[John Run]

Originally posted by jeffs

I would love for Peacekeeper to be another hit single for Lindsey but we have a better chance of Sadam leaving Iraq in the next 36 hours and moving to the US to embark on a university speech circuit than Peacekeeper gaining national popularity as a single and getting significant air time. I have yet to hear it in NYC though it has been played. Every radio station has made fun of how lousy the song is. Don't flame me - I am one of Lindsey's biggest fans to the point of nuaseum. [/B]

You know Jeff, I think you just try to get a rise out of this board. While you have never heard any station playing Peacekeeper, you have heard all the DJ's make fun of it...Give me a break! I am sure a bunch of DJ's are wasting air time trashing a song they are not playing. Furthermore you have been on a tirade for a week about how Peacekeeper is not a hit. You know what ,it probably will be a moderate radio success based on the number of adds. It was the most added added track in two formats last week. Finally, 3 different radio stations that I have heard play it, the DJ's have heaped praise on the song. Must be offering counterpoint to the DJ's you listen to that don't play the song, only trash it.

[CarneVaca]

Nancy, I understand your position, and you are not alone. I don't question your motives. But I don't believe a war is justified unless we are attacked first or there is indisputable evidence that we were about to be attacked. A recent poll shows that about 40 percent of respondents thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11. Doesn't that bother you? It's simply untrue, but it indicates that our government, through relentless deceptive propaganda, has struck fear into the hearts of a lot of people. Have you ever made a decision in fear? Decisions in fear tend not to be the best decisions one makes.

All this talk about installing democracy in Iraq is poppycock, and I will be proven right about this. You'll see. By the way, the LA Times reported last week on a secret State Department report that there's no way in hell democracy is going to happen as a result of this war. And furthermore, "entrenched economic and social problems are likely to undermine even basic stability for years to come." This is George W.'s own State Department! Doesn't that trouble you? The CIA has said we will be more vulnerable to terrorist attacks as a result fo the war. We are on Orange Alert again, and do you have any idea the havoc that causes here in New York for someone riding the train daily? It pisses me off! Our own military is divided on how many troops and how long it would take to stabilize Iraq after this war. The government refuses to tell us their estimates for the cost of the war. We have been lied to and the people we "elected" are refusing to listen to us? How can these people be trusted to install democracy anywhere when they are ignoring democracy at home?

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by John Run
While you have never heard any station playing Peacekeeper, you have heard all the DJ's make fun of it...Give me a break! I am sure a bunch of DJ's are wasting air time trashing a song they are not playing.

I wondered about that, too. How bogus.

[stefan]

Originally posted by sodascouts
And no one is asking Saddam to apologize for torturing men who disagree with him, or ordering women raped in front of their husbands, or their children, or gassing thousands of defenseless people...

Oh, wait, I forgot. George Bush is much worse, right? Tell that to the people whose fathers have "disappeared" or been mutilated for life. Or maybe they're "forgeries" too, huh. Whatever.

Well in order to prevent these people from living under dictatorship you could bomb them away so they are suffering no more.

Of course Saddam is a dictator. But first it`s not the business of the US government to interfere where it wants. There are btw a lot of international places where you could interfere then. For being the international conscience Mr Bush is not in the right state. He fought against terrorists using US weapons in Afghanistan and so he will in Irak too. But that`s a different topic.

In fact there`s a young and fragile but nevertheless existing balance of international relationships built since the end of the iron curtain. It`s most important council is the UNO. Even George Bush senior asked for "partners in leadership" and not for vassal satellite- like subjection. The concern of the UN Resolution 1441 is not about preventing Saddam Hussein from reigning as a dictator. It`s clearly about certain ways of disarming controlled by Hans Blix and the other UN inspectors. This process= the goal of the Resolution 1441 was developing in the last weeks and months. A military threat by the Irak to it's neighbours nor to the rest of the world is as a fact not existing at this moment. This is why there was no majority in the UN council, although the US administration exerted pressure on several countries like Mexico and others in order to make them vote for the war. By ignoring the UNO and going to war the US administration uses the right of the strongest (sorry for the term I don`t know the exact term in english) This does neither work in democracies (internal affairs) nor between countries on the international/multilateral stage.
And this ideology is a very dangerous one. Once you open that door it`s hard to get back on the original track. This is a severe damage of international balance and the UNO. Everyone could feel free to follow this example.
Btw the US administration also does serious harm to the countries own reputation as a defender of democracy and freedom (as always stated) which is the minor thing regarding thousands of men and women in Iraq are going to be killed.
It is not the last alternative! And so Mr. Bush isolating his country by going to war without international legitimation commits in my opinion a crime.