"Street Angel" and "Jane"

[miriamswell]

You are absolutely, 100% right, highpriestess53, Darwin’s theory of evolution has never, ever, in the history of the whole wide world been proven, but neither has it been disproved. And that is the fun and wacky part of science – scientific theories by their nature are impossible to prove, they can only be disproved. Aren’t those scientists a bunch of slap happy, goofy, fun loving guys? How can you not love them, bless their little hearts. As for the fossil record -- which unfortunately for all of us is an actual and tangible thing that you can see, feel, touch and even taste if you’re feeling lucky -- perhaps God put them bones on earth to test our faith. I mean really, what’s a bunch of silly old rocks compared to sacrificing your only son? If Abraham could do it, so can we! So, to borrow heavily from Kierkegard, those silly rocks are there to remind us that we must make that leap of faith, accepting anything and everything presented by religious doctrine as the truth and the truth only. Thus by embracing creationism, we are embracing God himself. And only God and work can set us free.

[RhiannonDncr]

Originally posted by miriamswell
and even "Just Like a Woman" are quintessentially Stevie. And who else could just phone Dylan to come play harmonic? How can you not love this woman? On the outtake she does a perfect Bob imitation without turning into parody.

ok, to totally change this thread from Darwin's Theory and all that - I have a quick question - does anyone have an mp3 of the "Just Like A Woman" outtake? I would love to hear Stevie's Bob imitation...

- Katie

[miriamswell]

I have it on cd, so if someone can talk me through getting it from the cd-rom version into a format for email, I would be more than happy to do it. Just remember, on a good day I find using the iron a bit complicated! If that doesn't work I can burn you a copy of the whole cd if you don't mind a bit of a wait. It is worth it, I am a HUGE Dylan (or as he is called in our house, The Bob) and this is probably the best cover I've ever heard. Even my poor, ignorant husband who doesn't like Stevie likes this version. And just as an interesting factoid that has nothing to do with evolution (or at least of the Darwinian variety ) is supposedly written about Edie Sedgewick, who was a model that hung out with the Andy Warhol crowd. Apparently, there was some tension between the 2 groups about where she "belonged." Edie Brickell wrote "Little Miss S" about her.
Cheers
~Mim

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
You are absolutely, 100% right, highpriestess53, Darwin’s theory of evolution has never, ever, in the history of the whole wide world been proven, but neither has it been disproved. And that is the fun and wacky part of science – scientific theories by their nature are impossible to prove, they can only be disproved. Aren’t those scientists a bunch of slap happy, goofy, fun loving guys? How can you not love them, bless their little hearts. As for the fossil record -- which unfortunately for all of us is an actual and tangible thing that you can see, feel, touch and even taste if you’re feeling lucky -- perhaps God put them bones on earth to test our faith. I mean really, what’s a bunch of silly old rocks compared to sacrificing your only son? If Abraham could do it, so can we! So, to borrow heavily from Kierkegard, those silly rocks are there to remind us that we must make that leap of faith, accepting anything and everything presented by religious doctrine as the truth and the truth only. Thus by embracing creationism, we are embracing God himself. And only God and work can set us free.

One should never blindly accept religious doctrine......leaps of faith can kill......it takes study, time and proof.....
As for the science guys well they are unfortunately too close to playing God in certain fields...and find it hard to accept that there is a greater being than them controlling it all....Funny how some of the fiercests scientific battles are waged amongst the scientists themselves who can not agree on the origins of man....and yet they have one of the most accurate science books to hand and they choose to ignore it.......it makes their complex lives too simple. The fossil record has holes the size of the Grand Canyon in it to be really considered worthy of looking at as a serious record of how man got here. Creation??.....the evidence is all around us....ask a genetisist about genes mutating enough to produce a different species and they say it isn't even remotely possible. It sorta blows evolution out of the water....
So life from cosmic soup as propogated by the evolutionists is as probable as a washing machine assembling the component parts of a telephone on the spin cycle.

I go with the creation....it is the only sensible conclusion......
The Master Builders signature is stamped on everything.....if you look close enough

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
....... "Just Like a Woman" are quintessentially Stevie. And who else could just phone Dylan to come play harmonic? How can you not love this woman? On the outtake she does a perfect Bob imitation without turning into parody.

MMMmmmmm...actually Just Like A Woman is not so much quintessential Stevie as in quintessential Bob Dylan....he wrote the song... Stevie used it.....read the words and it pretty much fits Stevie like a glove...

[RhiannonDncr]

Originally posted by miriamswell
I have it on cd, so if someone can talk me through getting it from the cd-rom version into a format for email, I would be more than happy to do it. Just remember, on a good day I find using the iron a bit complicated! If that doesn't work I can burn you a copy of the whole cd if you don't mind a bit of a wait. It is worth it, I am a HUGE Dylan (or as he is called in our house, The Bob) and this is probably the best cover I've ever heard. Even my poor, ignorant husband who doesn't like Stevie likes this version.

The Bob?? That's so great *lol* I love when I find Mac/Bob connections...I just found an mp3 of Lindsey and Mick doing "Love Minus Zero" at the AHI and almost died...it's fabulous

Ok, the only way I can help you with transferring a track from a CD to the computer is if you have a CD burner. I'm pretty bad with computers too. I only know how to use mine but I'll try. So a little background info - do you have Windows? And what program do you use to play CDs on the computer? If you use Windows Media Player, I can help you, but if you don't, I'm pretty clueless - - sorry about all the questions - if anyone else is better at this than I am, feel free to step right in and help

- Katie

[Lori]

Mim and Louise,

I know it's off-topic, but I am totally loving following your God/creation vs. evolution conversation. It totally charges me when someone has similar thoughts to mine, and still has the brain cells and neurons left to express those thoughts so intelligently and eloquently. Most days, I feel challenged just to put a full, grammatically correct sentence together! Of course, I suppose that is what happens when one is exposed to nothing all day long except for the cries of three little starlings shouting "Juice! I need more juice!" "I have to go potty!" "MOM, he/she touched me!" "Mom, he/she is repeating everything I say again!" "Why can't we have spaghetti and meatballs for supper again tonight?" and on and on and on and on...

(Really, though, I do adore them! )

Thanks again, guys. Mim, I've also enjoyed the other posts you've shared with us recently. Keep those thoughts coming!

Lori

[miriamswell]

I am sorry for you, my friend/no matter how much you struggle and strive/you'll never get out of this world alive.
~Hank Williams

I said to Hank Williams: how lonely does it get?
Hank Williams hasn't answered yet
But I hear him coughing all night long
A hundred floors above me
In the Tower of Song
~Leonard Cohen

So you see, my sweet High Priestess, God is in the details. I would never dare dream, with my paltry intellect and my fragile faith to speak for God or even for those who claim to speak for God. Because, at the end, when the darkness surrounds, the only thing you have is what you have gathered and treasured and held close to heart and mind.

Now you can say that I've grown bitter but of this you may be sure
The rich have got their channels in the bedrooms of the poor
And there's a mighty judgement coming, but I may be wrong
You see, you hear these funny voices
In the Tower of Song
~Leonard Cohen

I been double-crossed now for the very last time and now I'm finally free,
I kissed goodbye the howling beast on the borderline which separated you from me.
You'll never know the hurt I suffered nor the pain I rise above,
And I'll never know the same about you, your holiness or your kind of love,
And it makes me feel so sorry.

Idiot wind, blowing through the buttons of our coats,
Blowing through the letters that we wrote.
Idiot wind, blowing through the dust upon our shelves,
We're idiots, babe.
It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves
~Bob Dylan

Some women wait for Jesus, and some women wait for Cain
so I hang upon my altar
and I hoist my axe again.
And I take the one who finds me back to where it all began
when Jesus was the honeymoon
and Cain was just the man.
And we read from pleasant Bibles that are bound in blood and skin
that the wilderness is gathering
all its children back again.

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over, it ain't going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder
~Leonard Cohen (again, oddly enough)

Now Ophelia, she's 'neath the window
For her I feel so afraid
On her twenty-second birthday
She already is an old maid

To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking
Into Desolation Row
~Bob Dylan (yet again, fancy that)


Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom


For thine is
Life is
For thine is the

This is the way the world ends
] This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
~TS Eliot, a man of God

THE SECOND COMING
Turning and turning
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand:
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight; somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel Shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to a nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
William Butler Yeats, (yet another man of God)

So you see, my sweet High Priestess, God is in the details. I would never dare dream, with my paltry intellect and my fragile faith to speak for God or even for those who claim to speak for God. Because, at the end, when the darkness surrounds, the only thing you have is what you have gathered and treasured and held close to heart and mind.

Listen, Israel, God is Great, God is One
The Torah

Praise God, for he is Great. God is One.
The Koran

All the Gods are one God and All the Goddesses, One Goddess
Pre-Christian dogma of the indigenous peoples of Britain

And now for a little bit of fun Stevie trivia! Name that songwriter:

Outside my door...the rain is falling
A cold, wild wind will come
Well there's someone for me...somewhere
But I still miss that one


No I never got over those blue eyes
I see them...everywhere...
And I miss...those arms that held me
Baby, when all the love was there


Well I wonder...if he's sorry
For ending what we had begun
Well there's someone...someone for me somewhere
Baby, well I still miss someone


And I never got over those blue eyes
I see them...everywhere...
And I miss...those arms that held me
Ooh baby, when all the love was there


And I never got over those blue eyes
I see them...everywhere...
And I miss...those arms that held me
Baby, when all the love was there
Baby, when all the love was there
Baby, when all the love was there...

And the answer is.....Johnny Cash

~Mim, all tuckered out from a'preachin' and a'quotin'

[tommer]

Originally posted by highpriestess53

since when did the THEORY Of Evolution as propagated by Charles Darwin become fact????

i don't think darwinism was declared as a 'fact'...
it IS a theory (and a very reasonable one if you ask me) but science was always very aware of the difference between a theory and proven facts.
it's the creation/religious theory which is the one which is declared as 'a fact' by it's believers during the last few thousands years...

[jwd]

Posted by Lori: Mim, I've also enjoyed the other posts you've shared with us recently. Keep those thoughts coming!

I have to agree with Lori here...Mim I've loved reading your posts over the last few days. Thanks and keep em' coming!

I'm an animal lover myself and very much admire Jane Goodall and her DEDICATION to what she holds precious in her life...the chimpanzee. The correlation to Stevie and her love of music is obvious. The fact that she was inspired to write a song about "Jane" makes me believe even stronger that Stevie uses her craft to promote communication of trying to make the world a better place....to a HIGHER EVOLUTION.


Joe

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by tommer

i don't think darwinism was declared as a 'fact'...
it IS a theory (and a very reasonable one if you ask me) but science was always very aware of the difference between a theory and proven facts.
it's the creation/religious theory which is the one which is declared as 'a fact' by it's believers during the last few thousands years...

It is unfortunate that some of the worlds religionists subscribe to Darwin's theories.....and in our schools it has been taught as fact for many many years.......'this is how man came about we started out as monkeys and came down from the trees and finally became man'..........hogwash!!
God is a God of order not disorder so that would rule out him leaving the 'evolution' in Darwinian terms of man to chance.
A couple of questions that have to be addressed are
'Are the apes still coming down from the trees??'
I f not then WHO or WHAT put a halt to this evolutionary process??
When you have come to your conclusions at this point you would have to start to questioning the whole evolutionary process and look far more favourably on Creation as the process by which we exist. When you look at the complexities of our human organism is this a work of natural chance or masterful design......take a look at how the eye is put together.... cosmic soup thunder and lightning adding a dash of luck and the odd amoeba to taste. OR a carefully designed complex piece of Godly engineering......
The Creator wins.....

[miriamswell]

My dear highpriestess,

I cannot tell you the extent to which I disagree with you, but I would die defending our right to disagree. That said, I find what you have to say about evolution to be dated, ignorant, naive, offensive and absurd. All I can say to you is that I am sorry you feel that way. The argument you make and the people who support it make me feel tired and old. I am feeling tired and old. I can provide you with a reading list that would overwhelm the most dedicated scholar, but I know it would be a waste of my time and yours. The true tragedy in all of this is that in your inflexible stance you have closed yourself off to knowledge and new ideas. Do you really think that is what your god wants for you? To blindly believe without question? To close your eyes to anything that does not fit into your narrow, rigid worldview? To judge in ignorance those who do not accept your opinion as absolute truth – and that’s Truth with a great big “T” that’s peddled in the mystic’s booth? For all our sakes I hope not. I am not going to bother arguing with you or citing evidence or in any way proceeding with what has become a one sided discussion. I can only wish you peace and long life.

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
My dear highpriestess,

I cannot tell you the extent to which I disagree with you, but I would die defending our right to disagree. That said, I find what you have to say about evolution to be dated, ignorant, naive, offensive and absurd. All I can say to you is that I am sorry you feel that way. The argument you make and the people who support it make me feel tired and old. I am feeling tired and old. I can provide you with a reading list that would overwhelm the most dedicated scholar, but I know it would be a waste of my time and yours. The true tragedy in all of this is that in your inflexible stance you have closed yourself off to knowledge and new ideas. Do you really think that is what your god wants for you? To blindly believe without question? To close your eyes to anything that does not fit into your narrow, rigid worldview? To judge in ignorance those who do not accept your opinion as absolute truth – and that’s Truth with a great big “T” that’s peddled in the mystic’s booth? For all our sakes I hope not. I am not going to bother arguing with you or citing evidence or in any way proceeding with what has become a one sided discussion. I can only wish you peace and long life.

You take life too seriously dear, as well as this topic which started out as a light banter.....i do not judge those who believe evolutionary theory but like many other topics it is forcefed to the kids in our schools and the masses as fact without them being allowed to question it. Mostly because the educators do not have the answers nor the time or ability to nurture free thinking in the truest sense of the words to allow them to make up their own minds......
Do i believe evolutionary theory?..no.... does raise interesting points....yes!
As for judging folks......not knowing me at all you judged me as being narrowminded and ignorant....sweeping statements from one who is apparently not open to accepting other peoples opinions and allowing them their freedom of speech.

[miriamswell]

You make me tired and sad. You are not going to change your mind, nor I mine and thus there is nothing left to be said. If you recall, I stated quite overtly that I would die defending the right of people to disagree. Isn't that the refrain that beats in the heart of every God-fearing American? Please know I have the utmost respect for whatever it is you must believe to get through the night.

If you find the subject at hand too serious, find us something full of wit or if that is too much to ask, somthing full of mirth, something frivolous and foolish, a joke, a song, a riddle or a rhyme; something light, something airy, something lacking any substance but full of style.... perhaps a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing. I am done.
Adeiu,
~Mim

[highpriestess53]

God fearing American???

hahahahahaha....I am English and God fearing doesn't come into it.....