The continuing mystery of the Mac's 1974 tour

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

i could believe mick was willing to do anything to continue... but john knew about the new band and i assume chris did as well. i think the problem arose when they realized they could lose the legal right to the name fleetwood mac? like i don't think they were stressed that another band was out doing their songs but maybe they panicked when it looked like those guys would be able to take/keep the name... and Bob pushed them to do something about it.

--Lis

Yes, Lis. I think your take is right. Mick's account of the fake band in his first book is too fuzzy and selective to take as definitive. And years later, when Davis was auctioning off some of his FM-related memorabilia, he posted an image of a postcard John sent from Hawaii in which he asks Davis how the new band is doing. That's pretty damning for FM's case. It reveals that at least John, Mick, and Christine were aware of the reformation plans. I think the reason Davis backed off is because he got his money from them. They settled around 1976-77, so the band was flush and could pay what they needed upfront. Plus the label was now committed to Mick's band continuing. So, bad luck brought them to near-ruin and good luck brought them out of it.

But I believe Elmer Gantry.

In his book, Mick says when he, John, and Chris arrived in LA they found Bob very pissed off. I can see why. Bob saw that Mick was letting the band be reformed under Davis' supervision, thereby negating all of the work the real FM had put in from Future Games forward. When Davis (in that mid-90s documentary) claimed Bob Welch's ambition was to take control of Fleetwood Mac, I believe he was referring to Welch wrestling the band from Davis' grip. Davis never dug Welch or his tunes and wanted him out. Perhaps he saw this reformation as his chance.

Thank god Welch brought the band to LA. Thank god the label allowed them to record Heroes. Thank god they eventually were able to tour in the U.S..

[Street_Dreamer]

Mick's quote of Bob saving Fleetwood Mac is the most true thing he's ever said. He was the lynchpin for everything that happened even after his leaving the band. When you put everything into perspective, it makes it even more egregious that Mick didn't have the balls to stand up for him with the HoF stuff. Imagine how different everything would be had Bob left the band and not headed them fighting for their name.

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

In his book, Mick says when he, John, and Chris arrived in LA they found Bob very pissed off. I can see why. Bob saw that Mick was letting the band be reformed under Davis' supervision, thereby negating all of the work the real FM had put in from Future Games forward. When Davis (in that mid-90s documentary) claimed Bob Welch's ambition was to take control of Fleetwood Mac, I believe he was referring to Welch wrestling the band from Davis' grip. Davis never dug Welch or his tunes and wanted him out. Perhaps he saw this reformation as his chance.

Thank god Welch brought the band to LA. Thank god the label allowed them to record Heroes. Thank god they eventually were able to tour in the U.S..

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer

Mick's quote of Bob saving Fleetwood Mac is the most true thing he's ever said. He was the lynchpin for everything that happened even after his leaving the band. When you put everything into perspective, it makes it even more egregious that Mick didn't have the balls to stand up for him with the HoF stuff. Imagine how different everything would be had Bob left the band and not headed them fighting for their name.

"Bob Welch SAVED Fleetwood Mac" - Mick Fleetwood

And then for him to not even stand up for him at his exclusion from the Hall of Fame.

Mick Fleetwood is a piece of sh1t. Seriously.

[Street_Dreamer]

Seriously. I'm not sure how important getting credit was for Bob but he deserves to be recognized for everything he did to help the band fight for their own name. When I think about how his life ended, it makes it all the more sadder. He deserved to know how much he was appreciated and that what he did mattered.

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

"Bob Welch SAVED Fleetwood Mac" - Mick Fleetwood

And then for him to not even stand up for him at his exclusion from the Hall of Fame.

Mick Fleetwood is a piece of sh1t. Seriously.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer

Seriously. I'm not sure how important getting credit was for Bob but he deserves to be recognized for everything he did to help the band fight for their own name. When I think about how his life ended, it makes it all the more sadder. He deserved to know how much he was appreciated and that what he did mattered.

Absolutely. It's practically guaranteed that Stevie and Lindsey would've never happened if Bob hadn't moved them to the states(duh).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

but john knew about the new band and i assume chris did as well.

If that’s a reference to the letter John wrote to Clifford, I had the thought that John could have been talking about Hungry Fighter, not the fake Mac.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Is there any record anywhere of what sort of setlist they played?

I'm curious to know that too. But no info about it, and I couldn't find a media profile of any of those members, maybe except for Craig Collinge, the drummer. There's a Facebook profile with that name and it shows a picture of him playing drums, and videos playing keyboards. But that guy, though is not a young boy, looks younger than I suppose he should.

However, if we were to find any of them on Facebook, Instagram, etc., I don't know if I'd dare to send them a message asking about the setlist. Perhaps that event is something they no longer want to talk about.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by Villavic

I agree with that. Even if it's true Mick did reunited with Elmer, something doesn't add up in this whole story. He will never admit that, so we will never know what did he tell Christine and John, cause I want to think he wouldn't abandon the whole band without telling them anything. I think he would have told Bob too, but that's debatable.

And it was more likely that he wouldn't leave John like that. I know it's Mick, and I could be wrong, but that's my first thought. Even if it wasn't out of friendship, Mick would be interested in at least bringing John along because he was the original Mac, and it gave more legitimacy to the new band. Anyway we will never know the whole story.

John might have been in one of his "I'm done with the band" phases. He had gone to hawaii because his marriage was pretty bad. Bob had told me chris went thru phases of also wanting to quit the band as well....so maybe mick was just trying to somehow stay working..? Bob weston also said the mcvies would fight over who should stay and who should leave so maybe they weren't 100% in. Chris even later said If it hadn't worked out w stevie and lindsey, she was gonna quit the band anyway. But I guess we'll never really know.


--Lis

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

John might have been in one of his "I'm done with the band" phases. He had gone to hawaii because his marriage was pretty bad. Bob had told me chris went thru phases of also wanting to quit the band as well....so maybe mick was just trying to somehow stay working..? Bob weston also said the mcvies would fight over who should stay and who should leave so maybe they weren't 100% in. Chris even later said If it hadn't worked out w stevie and lindsey, she was gonna quit the band anyway. But I guess we'll never really know.


--Lis

Fwiw, I seem to remember that in Bob Brunning's (pretty poorly-written) book, there was a claim that at this time Chris "returned her shares in Fleetwood Mac" or some words to that effect. I borrowed it from the library as it didn't seem worth buying so I haven't got a copy to hand. If anyone has got one, perhaps they could correct or confirm.

It doesn't seem so far-fetched given what might be suspected about Mick's actions given what has been claimed by Elmer Gantry and Kirkby Gregory.

[David]

I hear that the band was booked to play a bunch of halls as part of the tour, but when Mick and the others called off the tour in the middle of it, they were still on the hook financially for the unrealized bookings. Getting the Davis group on the road may have been more than the manager’s bad idea. Maybe “somebody” in the band liked the idea, too, just to avoid paying promoters. Welch apparently did not like the idea (reasonable), but the manager’s insistence that he owned the name and had final say on membership must have roiled Welch to no end and he wanted to fight. Somehow, finally, Bill Graham got involved on their side, and that was what turned the tide in the States.

MYSTERY TO ME had not sold much, and Mac’s US audience was probably mostly college students and some holdovers from earlier lineups. Those were the people in the halls when the fake band was going. If I’m in college in 1973 and going to see a multi-act concert, I might not totally care whether Mick and Christine and John are there. “Fleetwood Mac” might not even be the band I’m going to see primarily. (Imagine if a fake Mac had been playing those gigs with REO and Benatar at the county fairs in 1994 — would anyone have cared?)

Good article which answers one or two questions but raises several more: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...n-tour-233735/

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by David

(Imagine if a fake Mac had been playing those gigs with REO and Benatar at the county fairs in 1994 — would anyone have cared

Well- thats not too far from reality, and No, I don’t think too many people cared/noticed/or were all that bothered. So I guess your point stands

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Well- thats not too far from reality, and No, I don’t think too many people cared/noticed/or were all that bothered. So I guess your point stands

Sh1t, I had lawn seats for it, and women all around me were bitching, "that's not Stevie Nicks!!!"

I wasn't too thrilled myself, until Bekka sang, "Dreamin' the Dream", and then she completely won me over.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by David

I hear that the band was booked to play a bunch of halls as part of the tour, but when Mick and the others called off the tour in the middle of it, they were still on the hook financially for the unrealized bookings. Getting the Davis group on the road may have been more than the manager’s bad idea. Maybe “somebody” in the band liked the idea, too, just to avoid paying promoters. Welch apparently did not like the idea (reasonable), but the manager’s insistence that he owned the name and had final say on membership must have roiled Welch to no end and he wanted to fight. Somehow, finally, Bill Graham got involved on their side, and that was what turned the tide in the States.

MYSTERY TO ME had not sold much, and Mac’s US audience was probably mostly college students and some holdovers from earlier lineups. Those were the people in the halls when the fake band was going. If I’m in college in 1973 and going to see a multi-act concert, I might not totally care whether Mick and Christine and John are there. “Fleetwood Mac” might not even be the band I’m going to see primarily. (Imagine if a fake Mac had been playing those gigs with REO and Benatar at the county fairs in 1994 — would anyone have cared?)

Good article which answers one or two questions but raises several more: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...n-tour-233735/

All excellent points David. The financial strain of the cancelled tour and losing a guitarist definitely could of been financial motive for the fake band. Its a miracle they got their s**t together and did Heroes. While the album is fantastic, it has an odd vibe. Bob and Chris pushed to the front. Were they just going through the motions. Its fun to think WHAT IF the fake band never happened or Weston was never fired. Its likely Buckingham and Nicks would have never made the line up.
Another excellent observation is why people went to see the band. Chris and Welch were not really stars on their own merit drawing people to the band. The band was living off its name which was the perfect storm for a fake band resuming a tour.
Its a shame no one recorded any of these shows. It would be something to hear. But according to Joe Walsh they kicked ass.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by David

(Imagine if a fake Mac had been playing those gigs with REO and Benatar at the county fairs in 1994 — would anyone have cared?)

Anyone who paid to see Fleetwood Mac in 1994 and saw a fake band perform would have noticed immediately. MTV existed then, but even if it hadn't, they'd already appeared on countless magazine covers. It's a very different situation from 1973.

I think then that not seeing Stevie and Christine that year with the band was disappointing anyway.

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Anyone who paid to see Fleetwood Mac in 1994 and saw a fake band perform would have noticed immediately. MTV existed then, but even if it hadn't, they'd already appeared on countless magazine covers. It's a very different situation from 1973.

I think then that not seeing Stevie and Christine that year with the band was disappointing anyway.

Don't be too sure of that. That summer tour had many acts touring together. Many attendees were not Fleetwood Mac fans and knew little about the band. All 3 singers/songwriters were no longer with the band. In 2018 people thought Neil Finn was Lindsey. There is a youtube recording of the Unleashed Tour when they opened up with Eyes of The World. Mick is banging on the drums and someone yells out STAND BACK. This Fleetwood Mac "fan" paid to see the concert, does not know Eyes of The World but knows Stand Back. He heard drums opening a song and his point of reference to that is Stand Back. Can you imagine Fleetwood Mac opening with Stand Back I don't think even Stevie would go for that.